Traps, searching and perception

[Lauberfen]

I finally encountered part of 4E that I just can't get my head around- Perception checks and finding traps.

1st, what type of action is an active perception check? I have 3 references so far:

Perception rules on p186 PHB – "If you want to use the skill actively, you need to spend a standard action or spend 1 minute searching or listening, depending on the task"

But: PHB p281 "On your turn, you can make
an active Perception check as a minor action".

and DMG p85 'Perceiving Traps and Hazards'
"When the party is within line of sight of a trap, compare each character’s passive Perception check with the DCs of the traps in the room... ...Of course, PCs can always try an active Perception check as a minor action to find any traps they missed with their passive check."

So with 2/3 saying minor action, perhaps that's the right answer?

2nd, noticing traps. The DMG is very clear that you get a passive perception check to notice traps. It also says that this is essentially there so that you can notice some clue, then search for the trap. However, the trap section never once uses the word 'search', and in fact, as quoted above, states that you can find traps as a minor action.

Given that you can take a minor action to find all traps in line of sight, why ever spend a minute searching adjacent squares?

I think that I'll adopt a house rule where searching for a minute adds +5 to the check- part way towards the old take 20, and actually makes it worth searching.

Thoughts?

 

[KevinF]

The trap section doesn't mention the word search because you do not "search" for traps. (using 3.5 terms, you spot traps, not search for them)

While you're moving about you can rely on your passive perception, or if you are dilligent, you can make an active perception check by spending a minor action each round to be "extra" alert. (I'd never let this roll be lower than your passive perception, you shouldn't get worse by trying harder.)

You probably COULD use the search option to very thouroughly and slowly search for traps, moving slowly, something like 1 square per round. (1 minute for 9 squares, is about the same as 1 round for each square). Searching that carefully deserves a big bonus to perception.

 

[Fkewl]

asdf

A perception check you'd be

On a d20
1-9 = 11-19
11-19 = 11-19
20 = dragon breath in your face... humm no, just 20

 

[Dracollich]

First, I have to agree with KevinF, for the most part. Although it seems logical that an active perception check should not be lower then a passive one... I have to say that it is always humorous at my table when someone rolls badly (ie.. I stare at the back of the dwarf... or... I notice my shoelace is untied are two player favorites)

The fact that passive perception is automatic, before an active perception is rolled, allows a DM to let anything equal to or under the passive perception to be noticed first and automatically. If a low active perception is rolled, one DM trick is to have them notice something and focus on it that is irrelevant to the important item/trap in the room. Ie. You notice a clumping of hair near the wall of the room but upon closer inspection you realize it's just rat hair.

The standard action vs minor action at first made me cringe... then I realized I can provide a character who spends a standard action a bonus. +5 bonus sounds good, allowing those who have not trained in the skill to have the ability to see what those who are trained and spend a minor action on it.

 

[Lauberfen]

Another point- perception says no retry unless circumstances changes, so presumably the active check doesn't count as a retry of your passive perception. On the other hand, it should mean that you can't make two active checks in a row for the same thing. This begs the question, what are they talking about in the DMG (I think) when they say 'assume the characters make search checks until they roll a 20, so tell them whatever's in the room to find'...

 

[TarionzCousin]

The trap section doesn't mention the word search because you do not "search" for traps. (using 3.5 terms, you spot traps, not search for them)

PHB, page 187. "Search."

It doesn't specifically say "traps," but it does say you are "actively searching an area or looking for something specific...."



I like the +5 bonus. When I search for something in a suspicious area and I roll poorly, I feel like I'm being punished for being perceptive, i.e., picking up on a clue that the DM mentioned. IMHO, being punished for listening carefully is not fun.

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