Treasure: Thoughts on the Parcel System

[the Jester]

Okay, so I've been giving some thought to the treasure parcel system, and to how it works with larger than average parties.

My group has eight players; on any given session we usually have 5-7 present. The parcel system, as it stands, suggests that I add a few parcels, basically to even out the number of magic items everyone gets. Okay so far.

But what about the cash flow? By the DMG guidelines, the same amount of gold gets divided amongst more pcs.

Now, I'm okay with this as it stands- less money for the pcs is always ok by me, as long as it doesn't drop them to flat broke too much of the time. However, where things start to go awry (to my personal tastes, anyway) is when you look at the way treasure distribution works. The pcs are now more likely to find magic items than they are to find money. To some people, this may be okay, but personally, I prefer it if the party is more excited to find a magic item than they are to find money. That may just be me, but it certainly is my preference, and a pretty strong one, at that.

Tying into this is another quirk of 4e treasure: the assumption seems to be that the pcs will always get all their parcels. I don't necessarily like this either- if the kick-ass magic item is secreted away behind a hard-to-find secret panel and the party doesn't find it, I'm okay with having them miss that parcel. They skip encounters all the time, and all that means is that they're closer to the next level's worth of parcels. Since not every encounter yields treasure, they're actually just slightly behind on their treasure parcels right now.

So I've decided to mess with the parcel system just a little bit. I have to admit, this is kind of a guilty pleasure; I generally run a new system 'by the book' for quite a while before I tamper with it, in order to get a good sense of how it works as a whole. I wasn't planning on house ruling until we'd at least hit paragon, but hey, this is the kind of tweak that doesn't look like it will have much of an additional effect on things...

Anyhoo, here's what I have done. In addition to the suggested three extra treasure parcels that are magic items, I have added in three additional cash parcels as well. However, I have reduced the cash value of some (not all) of the money parcels. Now, the first set of parcels I'm doing this to is my party's "5th level" parcel; I'm not going to post the magic items they might find, but I don't see any harm in a preliminary list of the cash stuff (these always change as I insert them into the adventure, anyhow).

Here are my cash parcels for 5th level; the total value of the cash is 2515 gp, with the DMG suggested total monetary value at 2000 gp. Doing the math another way, the DMG suggests 400 gp/pc for a party of 5 but only 250/pc for a party of eight, and I'm giving 314 gp/pc. This also helps spread out the pain of a missed cash parcel- if the ps miss 1/4 of their potential money for the level in one shot, that might make them temporarily poorer than intended.

8- 350 gp
9- Five opals (100 gp each)
10- 340 gp
11- 190 gp and 550 sp
12- Potion (50 gp value) and 110 gp
13- 60 gp and a ring set with malachite (50 gp)
14- 45 gp and 650 sp
15- Ornate gold spyglass (worth 500 gp)
16- 200 gp

Feedback, please?

 

[TheLordWinter]

What I do with the treasure parcels is not actually assign them to any encounter. I have the list of parcels separate from the encounters, and then just pick and choose what feels appropriate for any given encounter. If the PCs had a really easy time of it, I probably won't include any treasure, but if they really struggled with an encounter or it was against something that I knew was going to be very tough I'll toss in an extra piece or two.

 

[deadsmurf]

The extra money seems completely reasonable.
I'm of the mind if you want to include "hidden" "skipable" treasures then you might be able to pencil in a equivalent parcel (maybe one that isn't as cool... say a +X Weapon instead of some cool Wonderous item) Or maybe make the parcel a level lower, so it still stings a little that they missed the cool parcel.

 

[11lon]

Doesn't it follow that not ALL magic items they find are actually useful?

IIRC, magic items can be sold for 1/5th their price or get converted to redisuum... maybe one option for you is instead of giving them that magic item (the item that they can't use), give them the gold equivalent instead?

 

[Guyanthalas]

I use the "Treasure Hoard" style in my games. Now granted, I DM for 6 so I only have to add the 1 extra magic item. I agree with Jester, nothing wrong with less gold for the PC's.
The idea is basically I throw in all the magic items based on the encounters difficulty, and what logically makes sense. "I don't get it, where was the dire rat holding an avenger sword?". Sometimes, as you've put it, treasure parcels don't get used at all in certain encounters.
If I go through all the trouble to find magic items that will be fun and useful for the party, I want them to have the items. Yes, I like the idea that there are secret hiding places that the adventures can find that yield them magic items, but I'm really against the idea of them not getting it at all just because they overlooked something. Hell, who is to say I just didn't write that room out very well, so they never bothered to search?
So here comes the Treasure Hoard. Lets say the boss is a Solo Hill Giant (named Sloth). I will usually give him a couple of the treasure parcels worth of gold, and one of the magic items, just because its a boss fight and I like to reward those. If the PC's happen to have missed the nice Circlet of Giant Slaying, and the Dagger of Stabbing Large Creatures.. they will be added to the Treasure Hoard that Sloth is guarding. Obviously due to the PC's not finding the items they don't get to use them in the combat (which would have been advantageous), but the items themselves are still given out.

I'm a player in a game with 6 PC's, and the DM is kind of doing his own free form magic item delivery, and as such we are pretty low in the magic item pool. This is hampering us a little bit, and taking a bit of the fun out of the game. Now most of the items are just little spiffs, but its rather important to get Torso, Neck and Weapon items, and I think that not giving those out will really detriment the party.

(maybe one that isn't as cool... say a +X Weapon instead of some cool Wonderous item)

Wait.. what page were you finding the cool wonderous items on.. I can't seem to find them here...
[/troll]

 

[TheLordWinter]

Now most of the items are just little spiffs, but its rather important to get Torso, Neck and Weapon items, and I think that not giving those out will really detriment the party.

Now this is actually part of my problem with the treasure system. I'm running a game for 6, which means I drop 5 magic items per level. I don't want anyone falling too far behind, so most of the slots I need to use for the weapon/armour/neck combo. With 18 slots that need to be filled between the group, I worry that I won't be able to start dropping some of the cooler stuff until the 3rd or 4th equipment parcel, and by then many lower level items no longer have an appropriate level to drop at.

I am running a game for 3 higher level characters too, and it amazes me that when they used their treasure (not the flat items they get but the big pile of gold) they used them to buy lots of larger items instead of buying for each and every possible slot. At 18th level, only one player is wearing a ring and that's only because I specifically included it into the adventure!

I'm not sure if it's intentional that most equipment slots don't get filled except by the players, but I feel it might be. It would seem that bonus gold is meant to be spent on wondrous items and non-key item slots (head, arms, etc.).

 

[Evilhalfling]

I'm not sure if it's intentional that most equipment slots don't get filled except by the players, but I feel it might be. It would seem that bonus gold is meant to be spent on wondrous items and non-key item slots (head, arms, etc.).

No. I would count on the players to fill some of their 3- key slots since these are the most crucial, day in and day out. If you dont drop slippers of spider climbing or a belt of sacrifce, no one is going to buy it.

Since the players are getting one less #PCs-1 items per level, in order just to drop the big 3 items per character will take 4 levels.

When my party hit the big city at level 4 - they bought +1 longsword(ranger), +1 longsword (warlord) and +1 slyvan armor (elf rogue) ; then used transfer enchantment on a +2 crossbow to create a +2 throwing axe (warlord). Misc items found include a belt of sacrifice and a gem of power.

 

[Burne]

Regarding hidden magic items,

Its a truism of 4e treasure that magic items are worth more than the equivalent gold (assuming you use the published economy). Said another way, its better to find a +1 weapon than it is to find 360gp. Second, it's easier to dribble in additional gold over time than it is to toss in additional magic items.

Result, any hidden magic items that get missed get either converted into gold and dribbled in, or if particularly valuable (specifically, 3rd level PCs missed a lvl 5 weapon) converted into a less item and cash (I added a 3rd level shield to kobold dragonshield) and dribbled the left over cash in.

So far, the results have felt close to the ideal rewarded for success without punishing failure.

However, I run a information heavy game and have up to date copies of all PC character sheets, and occasionally check that character wealth is in line. Specific example, right now the Fighter is over valued, so I've adjusted the magic items to slots he already has filled, and with less 'fighty' things.