Trickle Up XP

[Infiniti2000]

First, let me point out that I don't allow leadership as a feat. So, any references to that will not be received well.

The PC's IMC have gotten to be around 15th-16th level. I am working with the players to transition the PC's in leaders of the community, nation, and even world. I want to transition not just the PC's but the campaign in general into a higher-level mindset. Call it the macro-mindset, if you will.

The players, through their high-level PC's, will shape events not just in their local communities, but also in the nation and potentially the multiverse. With the players, we will create a number of new nPC's (n is lower case on purpose). Each of these nPC's will belong in a chain-of-command to the respective PC. For example, the fighter will be commander of the city guard and will have a number of underlings, some captains, lieutenants, etc., all of varying levels and abilities. The others (six players in total) will have similar underlings. You could call them followers, if you will, but I am specifically not requiring leadership or using any of the rules contained therein.

It's my plan to have a large number of plot threads active at any particular moment. Each player will have to organize all of his nPC's, giving them tasks (or not) for each plot. As an example, say that an ogre was seen in a nearby farm. Obviously, the 15th level fighter could go kick its ass, but he's gonna have more important things to do and would probably send a small group of lower level fighters (i.e. sending only what's necessary). The other players might join in on certain plots and then we (as a group) could actually run a session or two with those nPC's (thus why the lower case n because they might be used as PC's on occasion).

My players really like this idea. It'll spice up the game a lot by the sudden shifts from high level to medium level to low level and back again. It provides a certain amount of interest at all levels of the game simultaneously. And, it gives the players direct control of not only their decision making, but the people who carry out those decisions (we might not play out every single minor adventure, by the way).

However, we don't really want to just 'stop' the high-level characters from progressing. I think that they should be awarded to some degree for their decisions. I also don't want the high-level PC's to just stall, but I also would like a small break and I like the idea to have the chance to immediately test out some new idea at lower levels (say I got a new supplement with a cool CR 5 monster in it) without doing a one-shot or ending the other campaign. I suppose you could call these one-shots, but they are continuous and are easily integrated into the campaign as a whole. So, to finally get to the point, I was thinking of granting some percentage of the XP gained to those in the chain of command. Say, the 5th level nPC gains 1000XP. I could grant say 15% of this to his immediate superior and then 10% to the next one up, and so on.

Has such a system been developed by anyone else? If not, do you have any ideas, comments, or criticisms? If you think this is a bad idea, please let me know. I'm not above criticism.

 

[the Jester]

iirc there was a similar system in 1e Battlesystem. I'll see if I can dig it out...

 

[dvvega]

I remember the old Companion Set having rules on ruling a nation. And you would get XP from your day to day running of the nation.

So while the ruler sits on his throne, etc, he would improve (albeit slower than normal), and now and then there would be something that only the hero could face.

That way you don't have to trickle XP up to them, they would be getting it anyway.

D

 

[Infiniti2000]

Right. Every now and then, we'll have an adventure for the high-level characters. That's for sure. But, in the meantime I don't want the players to feel like their characters are not progressing or not doing anything worthwhile. I want them to get interested in the running of things and if trickle up XP helps that, then it's worth it.

 

[sfedi]

One suggestion:

Instead of forcing the players to send and "appropiate" party to deal with a problem, let them do whatever they want.
BUT...
give the nPCs a deserved amount of ambition.
If they don't grow in that organization/community, they go away (i.e. if they don't make enough XP and gold, that is)
Thus, they are kind of forced to keep them occupied.

On the subject of keeping the high level PCs growing, I suggest that now they can look at nation wide problems, and thus, sometimes they have to deal with threats of a wider scale, and they have to join forces with other kingdoms/cities.
The key point here is that this threat doesn't endanger their city/kingdom, but others.
But if they don't do nothing about it, that threat gets stronger and eventually catches them.
Besides, this opens oppotunities to rally allies to the cause, or to deny resources to the enemy.
This can get VERY complex, you know.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Perhaps the higher-level characters (HLCs) can send some of the lower-level characters (LLCs) to deal with an ogre. The characters have some trouble but ultimately succeed. On the mission, they find some scroll that no one in that group can identify, but one of the HLCs can figure it out. The HLCs figure this out (behind the scenes) before the next adventure, and you grant them some small amount of xp.

The HLCs then decide that the information on the scroll needs to be investigated, and so they send some medium-level characters (MLCs) to get information. While they're gone, the HLCs continue doing investigative work (in their town, in other towns, through contacts, etc.). When the MLCs get back (having earned xp on their mission), the HLCs also have learned some more (effectively granting them some fraction of the xp that the MLCs gained).

A few more such things occur, and the xp that the HLCs have been gaining are inching them towards the next level--but they're still significantly far from it that inching along just won't do it. The LLCs and MLCs keep bringing clues, keep finding leads, and eventually, the crux of the issue is some nefarious foe that the LLCs and MLCs couldn't possibly handle. Now, the HLCs have to intervene directly, but, you've inched them forward enough in xp that this adventure ought to seal the deal and get them the level they're after.

Everyone wins.

Dave

 

[Errant]

I think I remember something about the rules dvvega mentioned but I can't remember any specifics. I don't think that system was big on building story lines but I could be wrong.

How detailed are you getting into the nPC missions' resolutions? Are (1) the players creating nPCs & running them through (effectively) side adventures, (2) are you arbitrarily determining outcomes on a 'build the story arc' basis, or (3) something else?

Seems to me if (1) the nPCs through side adventures you can grant the PC a percentage of the xp earned by the nPCs in return for the outfitting, briefing, supporting & directing the PCs provide (they are right?). In this case if it was me, I'd make the 'side adventure' really quick with a roleplaying/investigative moment or two & one decent (planned) fight to mix in a bit of action. This way the players are 'involved' in the story (effectively living through the briefing they would get later). I think any more than one or two (at most) big scenes & these side adventures would take big chunks out of the continuity of the main campaign.

If its (2) I think you're just going to have to decide on a more or less arbitrary advancement rate & just make a judgement call on how much exp the PCs are earning while the game focuses on the activities of the nPCs. If the PCs are powerful enough to be despatching minions on missions they're probably influential enough to get access to the best research materials & trainers in the land to help them hone their skills. (I know it heretical to suggest skills/abilities gain be improved by study & training, please don't shoot me). Just figure out how many sessions you want/expect the players to happily keep their PCs on the back burner, divide the exp required to advance by that number & there's your base exp per successful nPC mission.

If its (3) I'm curious what your were originally thinking.

Seems like a good way to get the players involved in the campaign world & illustrate how the world works around them.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I'll try to keep all that in mind.

Errant, that's pretty much what I had in mind. I was thinking a combination of (1) and (2), leaning more in the direction of (1). Whether the players create the nPCs or not is still yet to be determined. I hope they will do it, but if not, I'm prepared to create them myself. I'd rather they get more involved though, especially in drafting some maps of their guilds, lairs, etc. We rotate DMs (right now I'm playing), so I have a lot of time until my turn comes up again. I have some ideas on the burner, but I just need to drum up some more and tie them all in together. I'm thinking I'll need to hammer out 10 or so plots (adventures) in detail and have another 20 or so roughly sketched, and be ready to generate some more on the fly (I actually wing adventures from whole cloth on the fly very well). The key to all this is tying all of these plots, or many of them at least, together.

Anyway, that's the fun part. The hard part is deciding how to give out XP. I was hoping someone out there had experience with this idea already. Oh well, I think it'll work out well enough.

 

[Errant]

Whichever way you go making the nPCs up I'd make sure you limit their equipment values to the NPC limits listed in the DMG (assuming you use those guidelines at all), way less than equivelant level PCs. That way, the nPCs are more a reflection of the 'norm' for the game world, the players are subtly(?) reminded how special their PCs were, & any support they give the nPCs will have a more dramatic influence on how things pan out.

I wish my group played regularly enough that I could get into a campaign like you're suggesting. Sounds cool.