Pathfinder 1E Trip, AoO and Combat Reflexes...

[Ramm83]

So here is the thing, in the party of my players is a dward with improved trip and a reach weapon. He also has combat reflexes. Then there is a rogue knifemaster with Combat reflexes, a Summoner's Eidolon with combat reflexes and the Ranger's boon companion has Bite + Trip as well.
Combat starts with a creature medium size and charges, since he comes into threat range of the dwarf, the dwarf can make an AoO and can trip the dude, if more people charge he can trip two or three. Since his trip is high enough most people get tripped 70-80% of the time.
Now they are prone and everyone melee gangs up on them, what happens next is when they try to stand up every PC gets AoO multiple times by the rogue and dwarf and eidolon since they have Combat Reflexes, and the rogue even has Sneak Attack on it (and +4 to hit from prone), next the dwarf who has readied his action can trip one as he is up with his attack and the cheetah can try as well.
Now i don't care about all this cause well it is what they are specialized in and as soon as they come across Huge or larger creatures, or flying ones or even archers/spellcasters this trick doesn't work anymore. But my question is the following.. How would u play a fighter who has been tripped and tries to stand up surrounded by enemy's. Would u either let him on the ground and fight from there, fight defensively, surrender? Or is there a way he can stand up from prone defensively? If i was in a spot like that, when your down and surrounded it is game over ( this is true for real life as well ) and best u can do is defend yourself in the hope they don't kill you. Any advice is welcome

 

[delericho]

Combat starts with a creature medium size and charges, since he comes into threat range of the dwarf, the dwarf can make an AoO

This is incorrect. You provoke an AoO for moving out of a threatened area, not for moving into one.

Now they are prone and everyone melee gangs up on them, what happens next is when they try to stand up every PC gets AoO

Yeah, standing from prone shouldn't provoke an AoO. The designers of 3.5e screwed up when they made that rule change, and the designers of PF screwed up when they didn't change it back. IMO, of course.

multiple times by the rogue and dwarf and eidolon since they have Combat Reflexes

One opportunity means one AoO. Combat Reflexes doesn't alter this.

and the rogue even has Sneak Attack on it (and +4 to hit from prone), next the dwarf who has readied his action can trip one as he is up with his attack and the cheetah can try as well.

Note that the AoO happens before the action that provokes it. As a consequence, if someone is standing from prone you can't use your AoO to trip them, because they're already prone - there's no "double prone" condition!

 

[Ramm83]

Yes i understand they can't trip from the AoO, but the dwarf's normal action is readied for the moment the guy is up which he uses to trip him again. It is not the AoO he uses for this.
Also a person with reach has 10ft threatened area so as soon as you entre it does not provok an AoO but if you continue further to get to him u move out of the first 5ft threatened area, thus provoking an AoO.
But it is not to clarify the rules my question, it is just to ask how you would roleplay in combat a fighter who gets downed this way. Would u let him down and fight from there? Would he surrender? Is it possible to stand up from prone defensively?

 

[delericho]

Yes i understand they can't trip from the AoO, but the dwarf's normal action is readied for the moment the guy is up which he uses to trip him again. It is not the AoO he uses for this.

Fair enough. But if he's Readied an action, he's given up a turn of regular attacks in order to do so. That's a not-insignificant cost.

Also a person with reach has 10ft threatened area so as soon as you entre it does not provok an AoO but if you continue further to get to him u move out of the first 5ft threatened area, thus provoking an AoO.

Again, fair enough. You didn't mention the reach weapon, though.

But it is not to clarify the rules my question, it is just to ask how you would roleplay in combat a fighter who gets downed this way. Would u let him down and fight from there? Would he surrender?

It really depends on the situation. If he has allies who can drive some of those opponents away to give him breathing room, he'd probably fight on. If he has no reason to think a surrender would be respected, he'd fight on. But a canny opponent, knowing he's outnumbered and in a seriously hampered position, would probably surrender.

Of course, he also wouldn't have charged the dwarf with the spiked chain in the first place!

Is it possible to stand up from prone defensively?

No. I think there's a feat somewhere, or maybe a skill usage, that allows a quick-stand that doesn't provoke, but a character who can do that probably has sufficient Acrobatics that he'd just have tumbled in for his attack, and so not been tripped in the first place.

 

[Ramm83]

Yeah the thing with the dwarfs weapon is that it is a warhammer springloaded, thus the weapon can become a reach weapon in a click (We are playing in Dragonlance and the weapon is custommade by Tinkergnomes). He is specialized into it so he can use it and no need to play around it. Later on when the big dragons come his build will be next to useless *evil grin*

 

[delericho]

Yeah the thing with the dwarfs weapon is that it is a warhammer springloaded, thus the weapon can become a reach weapon in a click

That immediately raises a question...

The Trip action isn't usable with every weapon; you either need to use an Unarmed Strike or have a weapon that specifically allows it (which usually means it either has a chain part to it or a hook part to it). Hammer-like weapons tend not to have this capability.

So, I'd be inclined to question whether the dwarf is even able to trip with his weapon of choice. If, that is, I were inclined to be really picky about such things.

 

[Ramm83]

FAQ

If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?

No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature--you can use any weapon. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature. Note that there is an advantage to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver: if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.

 

[Ramm83]

From the d20pfsrd.com

 

[delericho]

FAQ

If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?

No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature--you can use any weapon. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature. Note that there is an advantage to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver: if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.

Good spot - that's a change from 3.5e (and not for the better, IMO - Trip was already too powerful without being made moreso).

 

[Ramm83]

Well if you look at it from a close combat perspective, it is true that this is powerfull. But the thing is trip is only usefull against creatures one category larger than yourself. So someone who focuses on this ability by taking feats and making a build around it doesn't mean he himself is too powerfull. Spellcasters/Archers are a bane against a dwarf with trip as he is too slow to get to them and trip doesnt do a thing. 4-legged creatures are also more difficult to trip. Then there are other fighters who have a high CMD so the chance that the trip works is not certain. Also if we go to Huge size category u can forget trip alltogether (unless the dwarf gets enlarged). Flying creatures or Oozes have no problem at all.

It is true in certain situation trip can be very powerfull, but in a lot situations trip is next to useless.