Triple HP at 1st level?

[CombatWombat51]

I've been out of the loop for a bit, so excuse my 4E innocence. I've noticed a few references to triple starting hit points, but I didn't see anything about that on our 4E Info Page.

Is this confirmed (as much as anything)? Source? Or is it such common knowledge that it's truth is taken for granted?

 

[JohnSnow]

I've been out of the loop for a bit, so excuse my 4E innocence. I've noticed a few references to triple starting hit points, but I didn't see anything about that on our 4E Info Page.

Is this confirmed (as much as anything)? Source? Or is it such common knowledge that it's truth is taken for granted?

It's been assumed because we were told that Star Wars Sage Edition is a "significant preview" of 4e. And in Saga, 1st-level characters get hit points equal to triple the max value of their starting hit die (d10 HD = 30 hp) plus their Con bonus.

But that's the only basis, as far as I recall. I'll see if I can dig up something else.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

It's what Star Wars Saga does. In Saga, if a class has d6 hit dice, then at 1st level they get 18 HP plus their Con bonus. At higher levels it's the same as 3.5.

People are assuming that it will be similar in 4th ed because we've been told that 1st level characters are tougher. Since we've also had hints that hit dice are gone altogether, I think it won't be exactly the same.

Edit: Ninja!

 

[AncientSpirits]

"Confessions of a Full Time Wizard" mentions a very comfortable number of hit points at low level, though the exact number isn't mentioned. And I'm thinking Hit Dice are gone for monsters but not characters.

 

[pawsplay]

Star Wars has triple hit points, and several tidbits have emphasized PC survivability, so it's likely 4e either has triple hit points at 1st or some kind of kicker.

 

[1 hp]

I hope this is true. As a DM, I hate the fragility of low level PCs.

I'm one of those DMs who rolls in the open, meaning there's no fudging of die rolls. Low level PCs die way too easily.

Moreover, the kind of monsters a DM can throw at low-hp PCs are pretty lame. Because of this, when a PC dies, it's often a humiliating death.

"Sorry, dude, the giant rat killed you character. I guess Konan shoulda ran away like the other PCs."

Boy, I hope this rumor is true. The idea of levels 1 through 3 being fun instead of mostly miserable fills my heart with joy.

 

[Henry]

Boy, I hope this rumor is true. The idea of levels 1 through 3 being fun instead of mostly miserable fills my heart with joy.

Honestly, that's one part that I really dislike about 4E - it looks like they're totally discontinuing low-level play, and they're making "Level 4 the new Level 1." I'd rather just have the full range of pathetic to mighty, and give DMs much better advice of where to start their player groups at. Having GM'ed a campaign of the new Star Wars now, it's nothing BUT over-the-top heroism from Level 1 onward, and to me that doesn't fit the spirit of previous incarnations of D&D, where you worked to see the results of your adventuring. I'm concerned with seeing PCs start at "Awesome," and just keeping going to "More Awesome" to finish at "Slightly More Awesome yet cool."

 

[A'koss]

Honestly, that's one part that I really dislike about 4E - it looks like they're totally discontinuing low-level play, and they're making "Level 4 the new Level 1."

Well I can pretty much guarantee that they'll come out with "0th level" or some other kind of training level rules at some point. Personally I love the change, like many others I hate having to fudge dice at low levels so that fully healthy characters aren't wiped by errant crits or even just 2 successful normal attacks...

 

[Wormwood]

I hope this is true. As a DM, I hate the fragility of low level PCs.

Maybe it's because I've played so many newer RPG systems, but D&D masochistic insistence on killing low-level characters is a definite turn off for me.

 

[Voss]

It has to do with the system not scaling well at the ends.
And crits certainly don't help 1st level characters. Actually, with no confirmation roll, crits are even more of a danger to first level characters, statistically. If something comes running at you with a d12 damage die and a damage bonus, unless you start with 25+ hps, you just have to pray that they don't roll high.

Its one of the problems in Saga. At first level, fighting stormtroopers, if the combat goes on to the point that they get 20 shots off, they're statistically likely to drop at least one character unless its a soldier or a scout with a high Con modifier. Nat 20 + average damage of 13.5 = 27. Bang.

Of course, if they're *smart* stormtroopers they'll just autofire at you and auto-kill everyone who doesn't have cover or evasion.
Half damage even if they miss= 6 per stormtrooper (well, 6.75). 4 of them wipe half the classes out. 2 more will drop the soldiers too. And thats if they all *miss*.