TROLL POLL #2: Feats or Famine?

[TrubbulTheTroll]

Some of y'all been complaining about all the feats out there in d20-land...

Let's take the pulse of the EN community and see how y'all really feel? Don't be shy - take the poll. And while you're at it, tell all about your fave feat and your most despised one, too.

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

I don't like the way feats have replaced skills to an extent. I can see why it happened. DMs don't like to make arbitrary judgements (like you so often have to do with skill checks) and feats are a great way to work around that.

EXAMPLE: A player wants to imitate Legolas' shield-surfing from The Two Towers. The DM says, "OK that's a Balance check DC 25." Then the player complains that it was DC 22 last week and the game slows down for a minute while they argue about it. A shield-surfing feat takes care of this automatically and there's no debate.

But I think this is sloppy. I'd rather have an extra page or two in various books on what skills can do and what modifies the DCs, rather than to just brush the problem off by creating a feat.

Another issue is balance. Feats aren't balanced from one setting to another and they shouldn't be. I deliberately overpower my feats because players can only take them at first level and they help define nationality (besides, the NPCs have 'em too, so it isn't like the fights are easier). That's great, but what happens when someone takes one of my feats and uses it in Forgotten Realms or Midnight? Wham! Instant broken feat. I don't think this is an aspect of feats that has truly "clicked" in the D&D community, a feat can be totally fine in one setting, but useless or overpowered in another.

There are some areas where I think feats shine. I think they're great for fleshing out martial arts styles (something D&D otherwise does poorly) and to personalize spellcasting (a la Malhavoc). But I don't like the reflexive "create a feat for it" sentiment that seems to exist.

... just my two cents.

 

[Malicene]

Got Milk Too !!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

It would be quite a feat to work milk into this thread. My milk-fu is weak!

 

[Arnwyn]

I'm drowning in feats. Too much!

Speaking as a DM:
My favorite feat, I think, is probably Improved Initiative.

There is a tie for most despised feat: The one from Sword & Fist that gives you AoO vs. Improved Grab; and Spellcasting Prodigy (FRCS).

Edit: Got feat name wrong.

 

[Crothian]

It's not about having too many feats, it's about having access to the right feats. I've had characters who I hated picking feats for because there were no feats in the 100 books I own that fit the character. And that is not an exageration, happened to me last fall. We went back to those characters and I finally found some feats that fit, ironically they were in the book called Feats. So, don't complain about their being to many when the problem is there are not enough.

 

[Morgenstern]

I have to agree that there gets to be a certain amount of laziness in feat design. A lot of designers ignore the negative implication of feats - using the example above, if you make a feat for Shield Surfing (rather than a skill check) then the implication is that NO ONE without the feat can shield surf.

I find the best feats are tied to new systems or skill uses. If you say "Shield Surfing is a Balance check, DC 25. A failed check leaves you flat-footed." Then you've established it can be done, but it ain't easy and set up a consequence to actively discourage amateur shield surfers. It also lays the groundwork for a good feat like Shield Surfing, with a prerequisite of "Balance 6+ ranks" (makes sense since you'r gonna be making Balance checks) and a benefit of "You gain a +8 to Balance checks to perform a Shield Surfing action (see Balance skill, page XX). Further, if you fail this check, you do not become flat footed." Viola, anyone can try but a person with the feat looks good doing it, even if he fails. When you find a books that adds a variety activities and support, and the feats to go with it, you are getting a complete sub-sytem, and not just some feat-fodder.

I'm also fond of finding new books that feats for use outside of combat/spell casting that I'd actually want to take. Unfortunately, since the skill use side of the game is often anemic compared to the love lavished on killin' things, such feats are rare. Hard to have feats for exceptional guile and grace in a courtly setting, when there are few rules for interation in a court to begin with...

 

[Yeoman]

I'm drowning in feats. Too much!

Speaking as a DM:
My favorite feat, I think, is probably Improved Initiative.

There is a tie for most despised feat: Improved Grapple (Sword & Fist) and Spellcasting Prodigy (FRCS).

Improved Grapple is actually from OA, not Sword and Fist, and it's is one of my favorite feats.

I agree with BG, feats can be fine in one setting and not another. I think a lot of it comes down to the DM of a campaign to determine what feats are appropriate for their campaign. Personally I use just about any feat available after I check it out first. My favorite so far is probably the Parry line of feats or Defensive Fighter from QF.

 

[Arnwyn]

Improved Grapple is actually from OA, not Sword and Fist, and it's is one of my favorite feats.

Oh. Then Improved Grapple isn't one I don't like. (I hate the one from Sword & Fist that gives you attacks of opportunity plus more against monsters with Improved Grab.)

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I don't like feats at all.