True Seeing and Nystul's Magic Aura

[Ristamar]

Truesight alone (the ability) trumps Mind Blank, but Mind Blank foils True Seeing (the divination spell).

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/729773528283779073

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Truesight alone (the ability) trumps Mind Blank, but Mind Blank foils True Seeing (the divination spell).

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/729773528283779073

That is interesting. Although you could cast dispel magic on someone who had the True Seeing spell (they might get a little suspicious if they were about to meet "Bob the Dwarf" and this happens) and I don't think "natural" true seeing is adversely affected by an antimagic field like the TS spell, so there is some sense there....

 

[ValdDrakul]

This line of questioning stems from the fact that all my players have items that grant them the true seeing spell. So its hard for me as a DM to suprise them with certain enemies that rely on illusion or shape changing.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

It’s debatable and a dm’s call if mind blank works against true seeing. If you Google it you’ll find a lot of discussion for both interpretations. Anyways, I think it’s beside the point. Non-detection might work better in any case.

When it comes to Nystul’s Magic aura, I’m not sure True Sight would let you glean very much anyways. It lets you see things as they really are but most people can’t see the auras of items and creatures anyways. Magic aura just lets you change it for spells that detect such things which true seeing does not. So, you can make yourself have the aura of illusion magic and cast mirror image to Trick Detect Magic, but since true sight is only concerned about the illusion itself and not the aura, you’d still show up as the real person among a bunch of illusory doubles. Can true sight stack with and enhance things like detect evil and allow you to defeat Magic Aura when determining if someone is a fey creature? Or allow you to detect magic on something made to look non-magical? Maybe?

 

[Dausuul]

This line of questioning stems from the fact that all my players have items that grant them the true seeing spell. So its hard for me as a DM to suprise them with certain enemies that rely on illusion or shape changing.

Well, yes. That is what true seeing does. You gave them all "get out of illusion free" cards; now they are getting out of illusions free.

Now, truesight does have a few limitations. Chief among them is the fact that it only penetrates magical disguises. The humble disguise kit can fool what the mightiest illusion can't. In addition, truesight does not detect possession or mind control. Any of these would allow an infiltrator to bypass someone with truesight.

Then there are the limits of the items the PCs are using. Assuming they are gems of seeing or something similar, they have usage caps: The PCs can't spam true seeing all day long. Cunning foes who are aware of this limitation could harass the PCs: Attack while invisible, retreat as soon as the PCs activate their gems, return an hour later. Repeat until the PCs run out of charges. A couple of NPC abjurers with dispel magic could speed this along by dispelling the true seeing effect. Dispel magic doesn't work on items, but it works just fine on spells cast from items... though a 6th-level spell effect is not easy to dispel; hence the abjurer, who gets proficiency on the check.

But you're always going to have to work at it to challenge this party with illusions. There's no real way around that, unless you are willing to strip them of their gear.

 

[ValdDrakul]

Well, yes. That is what true seeing does. You gave them all "get out of illusion free" cards; now they are getting out of illusions free.

Now, truesight does have a few limitations. Chief among them is the fact that it only penetrates magical disguises. The humble disguise kit can fool what the mightiest illusion can't. In addition, truesight does not detect possession or mind control. Any of these would allow an infiltrator to bypass someone with truesight.

Then there are the limits of the items the PCs are using. Assuming they are gems of seeing or something similar, they have usage caps: The PCs can't spam true seeing all day long. Cunning foes who are aware of this limitation could harass the PCs: Attack while invisible, retreat as soon as the PCs activate their gems, return an hour later. Repeat until the PCs run out of charges. A couple of NPC abjurers with dispel magic could speed this along by dispelling the true seeing effect. Dispel magic doesn't work on items, but it works just fine on spells cast from items... though a 6th-level spell effect is not easy to dispel; hence the abjurer, who gets proficiency on the check.

But you're always going to have to work at it to challenge this party with illusions. There's no real way around that, unless you are willing to strip them of their gear.

I didn't give them anything, one of my players crafted them, following the rules in books. He crafted items that he put the true seeing spells into.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

If it's breaking the game, you can talk to your players to put limits on the items. Or, you can have a powerful villain find out that the group has super-powerful and expensive items and have the villain plan to steal them. It can be a whole side-plot.

Maybe the leader of a major city/country is actually a polymorphed Ancient Dragon and the party discovers the truth. Worse than that, the Dragon discovers they know. Now he wants them dead before they reveal his secret and will stop at nothing to add those items to his horde. He might even offer them a trade and convince them to keep their silence...if they refuse, things could get difficult for them.

In general, though, Mundane traps, doors and disguises can overcome Truesight.

 

[Dausuul]

I didn't give them anything, one of my players crafted them, following the rules in books. He crafted items that he put the true seeing spells into.

Oh--well, in that case, mind blank is probably a fine solution for your problem. Per the DMG, to craft an item that can produce a spell, you must be able to cast that spell yourself. Since true seeing is 6th level, you have to be an 11th-level spellcaster to cast it, which means 15th-level opponents are hardly a stretch.

Of course, if the player... ah... overlooked that little caveat in the rules, and created the items at a much lower level... well, then, there were some rather large corners cut in the making of those items. Who knows what hidden flaws they possess?

 

[ValdDrakul]

Oh--well, in that case, mind blank is probably a fine solution for your problem. Per the DMG, to craft an item that can produce a spell, you must be able to cast that spell yourself. Since true seeing is 6th level, you have to be an 11th-level spellcaster to cast it, which means 15th-level opponents are hardly a stretch.

Of course, if the player... ah... overlooked that little caveat in the rules, and created the items at a much lower level... well, then, there were some rather large corners cut in the making of those items. Who knows what hidden flaws they possess?

Nah, the player who made the gear did it at a appropriate level. Although I have been overthinking the issue and mundane solutions (mask, disguises, etc) would be a good work around, just won't be able to use any combat illusion spells against them.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Illusionist specialists at 14th can make their illusions ‘real’