[True20] Is it for me?

[Hjorimir]

Explain to me how a giant ball of flame that flies and inflicts fire damage isn't a fireball.

A fireball (as in D&D's fireball) is an instantaneous explosion. Your original example was to first create a fire, then increase the fire, then move the fire over to where some opponents are located. (I'm not sure I'd go for calling fire an 'object', but that is a personal choice). You wouldn't have had a little pea-size flare flying to a point in space where it exploded; you had a huge rolling ball of flame due to its persistant nature.

I'm talking about control over certain variables that Power X won't grant on its own but that, when combined with Power Y, become available.

I guess I'd have to see a more detailed example of what you're talking about (preferably out of True20 as opposed to the very thin Quickstart rules).

Nope. I mean incorporating other powers from the book (i.e., combining Power X and Power Y to get the benefits of both). This was a major part of the hype surrounding the game and a design goal of the system (i.e., the flexibility to combine power effects to mimic other source materials). Again, the flexibility I think it delivers on, though at the expense of simplicity and ease of use during actual play.

Well, anytime you add any kind of option, by rule, you've increased the 'moving parts' and thus the complexity of the system. That being said, True20 is a very, very simple system to use, IME.

 

[JBowtie]

Nope. I mean incorporating other powers from the book (i.e., combining Power X and Power Y to get the benefits of both). This was a major part of the hype surrounding the game and a design goal of the system (i.e., the flexibility to combine power effects to mimic other source materials). Again, the flexibility I think it delivers on, though at the expense of simplicity and ease of use during actual play.

OK, now I see where you're coming from. I think you're better off using Elements of Magic or Mythic Earth for combining powers.

You can mimic other source materials with the True20 magic system, but it's strength lies in having powers that are versatile. Fire Shaping is a good example here, as it replaces many fire-themed D&D spells with a single power, and an innovative player can come up with new uses if the DM is comfortable with setting a Difficulty (the similarities to skill showing again).

However, combining effects from several powers is not straightforward and in some cases it may be better to come up with a new power or feat to enable the new usage.

Elements of Magic, however, seems to match your mental model precisely; because of that it flows much faster and with fewer rolls when creating new spell effects on the fly (and you can work out the DC ahead of time for your favorite effects).

 

[buzz]

I can't get into True 20. It over-simplifies some things and over-complicates others. I really don't like the damage save system.

I had a chance to play a one-shot of True20 recently, and this was pretty much my reaction. I was also surprised how much I missed AoOs. Combat was a lot less interesting for me with them removed.

We were playing an SF game, so I can't comment on the magic system.

Personally, I'd recommend FATE, as it rocks like Gibraltar, but it ain't d20. Otherwise, I'd simply say that d20M has oodles of support material.

 

[Pbartender]

We were playing an SF game, so I can't comment on the magic system.

Sure you can... Three of the six pre-generated characters in the adventure could use it, though only two of them did.

The bigget beef I've heard about the damage system thus far is that the effects of the conditions can be rather confusing. It'd be nice if they were a little more intuitive, so that you didn't have to look up the effects every time your character was hit.

 

[buzz]

Sure you can... Three of the six pre-generated characters in the adventure could use it, though only two of them did.

True! But I was but a lowly Pure Strain Human, and thus didn't actually use those mechanics.

 

[jdrakeh]

OK, now I see where you're coming from. I think you're better off using Elements of Magic or Mythic Earth for combining powers.

You can mimic other source materials with the True20 magic system, but it's strength lies in having powers that are versatile. Fire Shaping is a good example here, as it replaces many fire-themed D&D spells with a single power, and an innovative player can come up with new uses if the DM is comfortable with setting a Difficulty (the similarities to skill showing again).

However, combining effects from several powers is not straightforward and in some cases it may be better to come up with a new power or feat to enable the new usage.

Elements of Magic, however, seems to match your mental model precisely; because of that it flows much faster and with fewer rolls when creating new spell effects on the fly (and you can work out the DC ahead of time for your favorite effects).

I think we're totally on the same page now, and I agree with most everything that you've written here

 

[barsoomcore]

The misconception that True20 is a rules-light system is a pernicious one.

It is most definitely NOT rules-light. What True20 does is shift much of the complexity -- in the case of damage for example, by requiring a more complex sheet for record-keeping. In the case of magic, the complexity shifts to the players and DMs designing the effects they want, rather than having to review very long lists of pre-built effects.

Not simpler. Just different.

Me, I'm madly in love with True20. It has what I call The Crazy Hot Girlfriend factor -- it drives me crazy sometimes, and there are moment where I just want to give it up entirely, but something keeps dragging me back. I just can't keep my hands off it...

 

[Aus_Snow]

The misconception that True20 is a rules-light system is a pernicious one.

It is most definitely NOT rules-light. What True20 does is shift much of the complexity -- in the case of damage for example, by requiring a more complex sheet for record-keeping. In the case of magic, the complexity shifts to the players and DMs designing the effects they want, rather than having to review very long lists of pre-built effects.

Not simpler. Just different.

I agree with a lot of this. But I'd still say it is simpler, to some degree.

True20: 'rules medium'. . . certainly not light, agreed.
D&D: 'rules heavy'. . . maybe medium at lower levels.

IMO.

 

[jdrakeh]

The misconception that True20 is a rules-light system is a pernicious one.

It is most definitely NOT rules-light. What True20 does is shift much of the complexity -- in the case of damage for example, by requiring a more complex sheet for record-keeping. In the case of magic, the complexity shifts to the players and DMs designing the effects they want, rather than having to review very long lists of pre-built effects.

Not simpler. Just different.

That was a much more elegant way of making the point that I was trying to earlier. This is pretty much why I'm done with True20. I was actually sold a rules-light system, only to find out that it wasn't any less complex than the system I was already using but, rather, similarly complex in different ways.

 

[GlassJaw]

That was a much more elegant way of making the point that I was trying to earlier. This is pretty much why I'm done with True20. I was actually sold a rules-light system, only to find out that it wasn't any less complex than the system I was already using but, rather, similarly complex in different ways.

I was kind of in the same boat. The things I didn't want simplified - character creation and options, damage system - were, and the things I did want streamlined - magic (at least in True Sorcery) - definitely weren't.