TSR TSR5! A modest proposal. Paizo (or Modiphius or Free League) buys TSR, for a true rebirth

[LordEntrails]

Well, they would have to weigh that themselves.
Old labels do have value. It's incredibly difficult to bring a meme/brand into public consciousness. For better or worse, "TSR" is pretty well known.
"Oldsmobile" is recently retired car brand. "Packard" and "Studebaker" even older. "Oldsmobile" (due to its "old" connotation) was an albatross for General Motors. But, it would not be a ludicrous idea, for say, a mid-level company (say, Hyundai or Kia) to register "Oldsmobile" or "Packard" or "Studebaker" and thus buy into a meme/brand which still has a deep afterglow in a large market (i.e. North America). (GM probably keeps the trademark registered just to ward off such things.)

You don't think they have weighed that themselves? If this, or any of the lapsed trademark ideas, was actually a good idea, then all these old trademarks, or at least some of them, would actually be getting picked up by someone. So the fact that they are not, tells me that folks in the various businesses disagree that these old TMs have the value you think they do.

Yeah, but imagine if Free League had picked up the TSR trademark a year or two ago, in cooperation with the Gygax mag folks. Instead of these sorry clowns. Before this quagmire unfolded.

Solarium/Top Secret NWO had the trade mark two years ago. Not that it hurt them, it probably did help, but the trademark did not have some great inherent value in it that is going to churn out money. Yes, Ernie et al certainly thought so, but for a fact that's not what happened with the now named Solarium.

Say you could kickstart Star Frontiers and maybe Top Secret S/I, or who knows Buck Rogers in the 25th Century - how long would that last beyond the initial nostalgia burst?

I would like to think Star Frontiers could be viable long term. There is a healthy community still about for it, and StarFinder seems to suggest such might be viable, but I also have to agree that it would be a big risk. Might be enough for a small inde company, but obviously WotC doesn't think the reward is worth the risk for their resources.

 

[Parmandur]

I would like to think Star Frontiers could be viable long term. There is a healthy community still about for it, and StarFinder seems to suggest such might be viable, but I also have to agree that it would be a big risk. Might be enough for a small inde company, but obviously WotC doesn't think the reward is worth the risk for their resources.

Never say never on that front: they've run Star Frontiers in a 5E engine at conventions in the past few years, and moved to defend their trademark when Evil Hat made a move.

 

[LordEntrails]

Never say never on that front: they've run Star Frontiers in a 5E engine at conventions in the past few years, and moved to defend their trademark when Evil Hat made a move.

I know, I try not to get my hopes up!

 

[Don Durito]

I could see Free League making an offer for Star Frontiers if they thought there was an audience. Kickstarter limits the risk somewhat, and they've already revived Twilight 2000.

What I can't see is why they would want to buy the TSR name.

 

[Disgruntled Hobbit]

Do people want old TSR games and IPs powered by Pathfinder 2nd ed rules?
Pathfinder 2nd ed is retro compared to modern games but it's the opposite of OSR

 

[GMMichael]

Do people want old TSR games and IPs powered by Pathfinder 2nd ed rules?
Pathfinder 2nd ed is retro compared to modern games but it's the opposite of OSR

Oh, god, no.

I'd look at a three-ring-binder Monster Compendium, though. Printed, hopefully, on recycled paper.

 

[Morrus]

I would like to think Star Frontiers could be viable long term. There is a healthy community still about for it, and StarFinder seems to suggest such might be viable, but I also have to agree that it would be a big risk. Might be enough for a small inde company, but obviously WotC doesn't think the reward is worth the risk for their resources.

I wouldn't pay for it, as a publisher. What am I buying? Two (pretty generic) words. The rest I can do myself.

 

[jgsugden]

Seriously - the name is so tainted it is not worth trying to reclaim. The label was oozing puss when it was sold off to WotC, and the things that went wrong with it since then have made it worse. It now stands for intolerance, inefficiency and lack of vision.

Had this fiasco not taken place, I'd have bought a TSR shirt for the nostalgia, like buying a pet rock shirt, but I would never endorse the use of the TSR label now.

 

[Dire Bare]

I don't get it. What's TSR really worth these days without D&D that anyone should spend real money to buy it?

Say you could kickstart Star Frontiers and maybe Top Secret S/I, or who knows Buck Rogers in the 25th Century - how long would that last beyond the initial nostalgia burst?

Star Frontiers and Top Secret have some nostalgia value for some older gamers, but neither game had strongly defined settings.

Top Secret was pretty generic spy genre fare . . . and the current Top Secret game from Solarian (formerly TSR2) has no connection to the original game in either rules or setting (although both games share the lead designer, Merle Rasmussen). Then again, there isn't much there to "share" if Solarian licensed the original game from WotC, it wouldn't be worth it! The only value is the nostalgia factor on the name itself, which is limited.

A new Star Frontiers would be similar. It wouldn't be worth licensing the original game/setting from WotC, the only thing worthwhile is the name . . . and again with limited appeal beyond the OSR crowd.

Buck Rogers though . . . the TSR version of that setting was well defined and had some depth to it! However, while Buck himself should be in the public domain (it's apparently somewhat complicated), trying to revise the TSR-era setting would require a license from both WotC AND the Dille Trust (the holders of Buck Rogers IP). That's not likely to happen. Although, there are rumors a new version of Buck Rogers is in development in Hollywood . . . .

The only classic TSR-era RPGs worth licensing are D&D and Gamma World. Even Gamma World is iffy, as it has the same problems as Top Secret and Star Frontiers, although with more attempts to revitalize it over the years. Same with Boot Hill and Gangbusters. All of these games outside of D&D itself have only a limited appeal to the OSR crowd, and none of them have a lot of depth to them to distinguish them from their respective genres.

Now . . . if WotC themselves (perhaps with a licensing partner) decided to try a new Gamma World or Star Frontiers based on the D&D 5E engine, with a modern-style reimagining of the settings . . . I could go for that!

 

[Aarkvard]

Now which TSR publishes Boot Hill Revised: Socks With Sandals Hill?