Tumble from Prone...and old question, yet rarely discussed?

[Wellby]

When you are fighting giants, your characters quickly end up on the ground. (improved Overrun, etc)

Standing up from prone in such a high AoO environment (10' reach) is bad...real bad.

So, I found a couple of enworld threads from 2004 in which no solid conclusion is gained re: can you tumble out of prone?

The books don't seem to be too clear. Standing up from prone is a move action. If one takes a full round to stand up (a double move), and tumbles while doing so, because they are moving at half of normal movement, can one (with a successful DC 15) avoid the AoO?

Since crawling 5' is a full round action, it does seem as if you cannot tumble during a crawl (half speed would get you nowhere...) but that seems wrong as well, but I can't figure out a rule work-a-round.

The situation: a 13th level monk in our party, who can do, frankly, just about anything in terms of time/space/movement, with tumble +18, is just as clutzy as a 1st level dwarven cleric when standing up from prone, and that just seems silly. She could handspring on to the giant's shoulder's for goodness sakes.

any thoughts?

 

[MerricB]

Complete Adventurer and the old Epic Rules allows you to stand up from prone as a free action with a DC 35 check; I dare say you can do it easier as a move action.

The Thief-Acrobat gained the ability to "kip up" - stand from prone as a free action that doesn't provoke AoOs.

I'd probably allow it as part as a move action as a normal part of tumbling: DC 15 to stand up without an AoO.

Cheers!

 

[Ranger19k]

Skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel may help:

Nimble Stand [Movement] p. 88
You can rely on your acrobatic talent to stand up from
prone safely.
Prerequisite: Tumble 8 ranks.
Benefit: You can stand up from prone without provoking attacks of opportunity.

Tumbling Crawl [Movement] p.90
You can safely roll away from danger.
Prerequisite: Tumble 5 ranks.
Benefit: By succeeding on a DC 15 Tumble check, you can crawl 5 feet as a move action without provoking attacks of opportunity. Crawling normally provokes attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point during your crawl (PH 142).

And I don't have my Oriental Adventures book handy, but there are some optional "extreme tumbling" rules in there that may allow a high tumble check to do what you want it to, without the skill tricks. Worth checking out.

 

[Grogg of the North]

Prone attack lets you stand up as a free action if you hit. It remains silent on the AoO though so it would be up to your DM.

 

[kitcik]

My answer to this question is definitely:
- you can tumble from prone, but you end up still prone unless you do something else (use a move action, make the Tumble check to stand up from prone, or {probably best option} use a skill trick).

There is another skill trick that lets you stand up from prone without AoO's as a free action. Back on Your Feet.

If you could tumble from prone and end up standing, they would have said that rather than providing all these other options (including a tumble check that is 20 points higher).

EDIT: your monk only has ranks + jump synergy? tell him to get some dex or a tumble boosting item. masterwork sneakers could help.

 

[olshanski]

I always house-ruled that with tumble checks, if you started standing and ended prone, it was still DC15. If you started prone and ended standing it was DC20.

I felt that the latter splatbooks such as complete scoundrel, oriental adventures, and others just exploited this gap in the rules as an excuse to create extra rules bloat... an excuse to add page count, rather than simply fixing the oversight to begin with.

 

[Celebrim]

I've always hated the rule that standing up from prone resulted in an AoO.

At the very least, the rule that requires an epic usage of tumble to get to your feet as a free action is poorly thought out. A 'kip up' isn't even the safest way to get your feet underneath you - it's just more dramatic.

Under my rules, it's DC 35 to regain your feet as an immediate action. Getting your feet underneath you as an action that takes far less than 3 seconds - a 'free' action - is but DC 20, and someone with a Tumble check of +18 would be basically expected to do that every time. Making the tumble check unreasonably difficult not only hurts skill usage, but has lead to all sorts of 'skill tricks', feats, and class abilities that allow you to do something that is better handled as a skill check - not as the exclusive proprietary action of the few that invest in some gnostic excercise.

 

[Vegepygmy]

My ruling: no, you cannot Tumble your way out of being prone (except by making a DC 35 check per the Rules Compendium). Standing up is not "normal movement," so you can't just make a DC 15 check to avoid the AoO provoked by standing up. And there are feats, class abilities, and magic items that allow you to regain your feat without provoking, of course. But generally, no.

 

[nijineko]

I believe that there is also a feat and/or class ability that allows one to fight from prone without penalty and denies the bonus against the prone person....

I did not really see a need to alter the rules in this regard. I might be persuaded to allow someone under a freedom of movement effect to make the standard tumble check to avoid AoO instead of the normal prone DC.

IMO, there are enough ways around this restriction that it needs no particular change in the rules.

 

[Wellby]

but...changing rules to increase the enjoyment of the game is the DM's job!

I've been playing what Merric would 'allow', tumble 15 to stand up. this makes a 13th level monk very different at standing up than a 1st level dwarven cleric, so I like it. and everyone gets the 'chance' to avoid the aoo. These other fixes involve making special choices when gaining a level, etc., and I don't think that should be necessary (as others have said on this thread)

As a teen in the 80s who played both D&D and Squad Leader...it was often hard to switch mindsets. In the latter game, it is ALL rules, no bending, and indeed you felt the scenario wasn't quite as good if someone after the fact pointed out that you played some obscure rule incorrectly. Then, to AD&D where I had to sometimes drop that mindset, as the game was BETTER if tweaking a rule led to a better story.

I find I'm much more able to do this today as a DM, as I no longer play ASL...