Turning Undead: PC-powered or deity-powered?

[Chupacabra]

When a cleric or paladin turns undead, is he/she channeling divine power and acting merely as a conduit or is it an inherent ability of that character? Specifically, I am thinking about starting a campaign with a party of drow PC's to run thru the City of the Spider Queen adventure. Given the whole "Lolth is silent and doesn't grant any spells" premise, I'm wondering if her clerics would retain the ability to rebuke? If turning/rebuking is a personal ability, then I would think the answer is yes. If it is merely a manifestation of divine power, if that cleric's god no longer was around (killed or "silent" or missing or cosmically out-to-lunch or whatever) then I think the cleric is out of luck when it comes to turning/rebuking.

I want to do the adventuring party "by the book" with the archetypal party: one cleric, one wizard, one fighter, one rogue. Given the large number of undead in that particular adventure, if the cleric is Lolth-worshipping I would like to know if she is going lose the ability to rebuke (as well as losing her spells -- which can be covered by items I guess).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

When a cleric or paladin turns undead, is he/she channeling divine power and acting merely as a conduit or is it an inherent ability of that character?

Mechanically, its due to a channeling Positive Energy. Fluff? That's a different question.

Under the rules of 3.X, I'd say it depends on the PC, which is to say, most divinely linked classes in 3.X may recieve their abilities from divine beings or from their intense belief in certain philosophies.

IOW, one PC may be completely empowered by his god, another by his beliefs, and any number of others in whatever mix you deem appropriate.

 

[lukelightning]

Channeling means they are just a conduit, not the source. Of course, that doesn't mean it has to be some anthropomorphic deity involved. But it does mean that the character is not creating this energy ex nihilo.

The whole "deity won't grant spells" is one of the reasons I dislike deity involvment in games. It seems that DMs love to pick on clerics. "Your god takes away your power. Something is blocking your god. Your god died and you lose all your powers."

Makes me want to become a Ur priest.

 

[Chupacabra]

I would never normally yank a cleric's spells or powers "because their god is dead" but that is kinda the whole rationale behind the City of the Spider Queen adventure in the first place. Lolth is "silent", her clerics have become (mostly) powerless, and in that power vacuum...in steps another force that needs to be dealt with -- either by surface dwelling good guys or by drow adventurers/investigators who are not-so-good-guys.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Nyeshet]

By the RaW, a cleric does not need a deity. Their fervent belief empowers the magic. However, in some settings or modules a cleric is required to have a deity. Forgotten Realms is one of these, as I recall from its Campaign Setting book. Those that do not have a deity cannot use magic or turn if a cleric, and after death are used as building blocks in some wall called the Fugue, if I recall correctly. I think it is the wall surrounding the place where FR's death deity resides (Kelemvor at the present).

 

[saucercrab]

By the RaW, a cleric does not need a deity. Their fervent belief empowers the magic. However, in some settings or modules a cleric is required to have a deity. Forgotten Realms is one of these, as I recall from its Campaign Setting book. Those that do not have a deity cannot use magic or turn if a cleric, and after death are used as building blocks in some wall called the Fugue, if I recall correctly. I think it is the wall surrounding the place where FR's death deity resides (Kelemvor at the present).

Actually, IIRC, it's called the Wall of the Faithless, & the area outside it is the Fugue Plain.

As for the topic, I think that Turn Undead would be just as unavailable as divine spells for cleric of Lolth during this time. I don't know if it's spelled out anywhere that this is the case; it just makes sense to me (which could cause me to be ejected from this forum).

 

[Bloodcookie]

Actually, IIRC, it's called the Wall of the Faithless, & the area outside it is the Fugue Plain.

As for the topic, I think that Turn Undead would be just as unavailable as divine spells for cleric of Lolth during this time. I don't know if it's spelled out anywhere that this is the case; it just makes sense to me (which could cause me to be ejected from this forum).

I believe it actually is the case: in the novel Dissolution of the WotSQ series, at least, there is an instance in which a cleric of Lolth is unable to rebuke a winged ghoul that's harrying her.

 

[Chupacabra]

Thank you, thank you all.

Guess I gotta go find those books...