Originally posted by DrOct:
Hi there!
So for an upcoming (like next week!) campaign some friends and I are starting I've been tasked with building several varient "Lizardfolk" sub-groups. There is some info fro making Lizardfolk NPC's in the DMG, but I found that the Southlands Heroes for 5th Edition book by Kobold Press has a pretty fleshed out Lizardfolk PC race, as well as some options for customizing Lizardfolk. I've taken that and added in some custom abilities of my own and broken down the customization even further.
In the world we're going to be playing in there are a number of different "Lizardfolk" though there are going to be 4 main groups, and not all of them are actually descended from Lizards.
I feel pretty good about most of the other three, but I'm a little iffy on the "Tortle" race I'm working on.
In order to capture the flavor of Turtles they've got a swim speed and the ability to hold their breath for a number of minutes equal to their constitution score. They've also got a bite attack that does 1d6 peircing damage. Their Ability Score increases are +2 Con +1 Wis. They've also got a shell that gives them a +3 Natural Armor bonus. This last one is the part that makes me a little unsure about balance and such.
In order to balance that +3 Natural AC bonus which is pretty powerful, I've done a few things and wanted to get some opinions on them. First, in order for that natural armor to stack with armor I've declared that armor must be custom made for Tortles, and that custom armor costs twice as much as regular armor. I've also said that existing armor can be customized for Tortles, at a cost of half the normal cost for that type of armor. I've also had this ability take up two "slots" so Tortles don't get the automatic proficiency in stealth that the "base" Lizardman in the Southlands book gets. Finally, and this is the big one, I've reduced their speed (both swim and walk) to 20.
That last one is the really big one. Is that too slow to be fun (ie will they spend all of their time just trying to get to opponents rather than actually fighting them? Is it necessary at all? Would slowing them down to 25 (like Dwarves) be enough to balance things out?
Other option are to just not make the AC bonus stack with armor at all, make the bonus a bit smaller, or maybe take away the bite attack?
The Lizardfolk NPC race in the DMG also has +3 AC that stacks (as far as I can tell), but they also get a -2 to Int, and as an NPC race don't have to be as well balanced as the PC races.
Thoughts? Am I overthinking things?
Edit: It's probably going to be easier to evaluate if I just post the whole write up for them isn't it? Here it is:
Tortles
Tortles are descended from turtles. They are large and extremely tough. their shells provide great protection against most attacks, and they can take a large amount of damage. They are slow, but relentless.
You gain the following abilities:
Ability Score Increase: Your Constitution score increases by 2, and your Wisdom score increases by 1.
Age: Tortles mature at a similar rate as humans. They have a longer lifespan. No one knows yet what the upper limits of a Tortle’s lifespan are. Many of those Tortles first created by the elves at the start of the war over a century ago (those few not killed by violence) are still alive.
Size: Your size is medium.
Speed: Your base walking speed is 20 feet.
Special Abilities:
Tortles have the following special abilities:
Swim Speed: You have a swim speed of 20 feet.
Hold Breath: You can hold your breath for a number of minutes equal to your Constitution score.
Hard Shell: You have a thick hard shell which provides great protection. You have a natural armor bonus of +3. This can stack with armor, but only if that armor is customized for use by Tortles. Customized armor costs twice as much as regular armor. Existing armor can be customized for a Tortle by a talented armorsmith for half the normal cost of that general type of armor.
Bite Attack: You have proficiency with your bite, which deals 1d6 piercing damage.
Originally posted by Elfcrusher:
Presumably their shell is only on their back, right? What if they have to consciously go into defensive mode (maybe even retracting into their shell) to get the bonus? Which means that any bonuses come with a cost. Ideas:
- When taking the Dodge action they gain resistance to slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing.
- On any round they can withdraw into their shell, imposing Disadvantage on attackers but suffering Disadvantage on their own attack rolls and making casting with somatic components impossible.
- As a Reaction they can withdraw partially into their shells, granting +2 AC and granting +2 to Dex saves versus spells.
Or something like that.
I like the idea of a turtle race, and I don't like most new race ideas. So that's saying something! (Maybe that I have terrible taste....)
Originally posted by DrOct:
Thanks! Those are all interesting ideas that I'll definitely think hard on! I'm still sort of leaning toward something a little simpler that requires a little less mental space/interaction (ie things that are reasonably passive), but none of those seem too difficult so... maybe!
Thanks for the suggestions!
Originally posted by WorBlade:
Turtles do have shell on the bottom - or front for a bipedal one. Thinner but it is there. Maybe a bipedal turte would develop a thinner bank and thicker front for preserving body mass in a resonable zone while sharing the protection arount. The Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles might not be the best physical example of what the race would like look as they have heavy tutrle shell backs.
Originally posted by DrOct:
I thought I'd post what we finally settled on for the Tortle! Feel free to use this an you see fit or make your own versions. If you do use it I'd love to hear how it worked, and see any changes you made!
Tortles
Tortles are descended from turtles and tortoises. They are large and extremely tough. their shells provide great protection against most attacks, and they are tough to injure. They are slow, but relentless.
As a Tortle your patience and endurance are far greater than most. You are at home in the water or the land. You gain the following abilities:
Ability Score Increase: Your Constitution score increases by 2, and your Wisdom score increases by 1.
Age: Tortles mature at a similar rate to humans. They have a longer lifespan. No one knows yet what the upper limits of a Tortle’s lifespan are. Some of those Tortles first created by the elves at the start of the war over a century ago (those few not killed by violence) are still alive.
Size: Your size is medium.
Speed: Your base walking speed is 25 feet.
Special Abilities:
Tortles have the following special abilities:
Swim Speed: You have a swim speed of 25 feet.
Hold Breath: You can hold your breath for a number of minutes equal to your Constitution score.
Hard Shell: You have a thick hard shell which provides great protection. You have a natural armor bonus of +2. This can stack with armor, but only if that armor is customized for use by Tortles. Customized armor costs one and a half times as much as regular armor. Existing armor can be customized for a Tortle by a talented armorsmith for half the normal cost of that general type of armor.
Natural Predator: Tortles can use their slow movement and ability to sit still for long periods of time to surprise enemies and prey.
You have proficiency with the Stealth skill.
Hi there!
So for an upcoming (like next week!) campaign some friends and I are starting I've been tasked with building several varient "Lizardfolk" sub-groups. There is some info fro making Lizardfolk NPC's in the DMG, but I found that the Southlands Heroes for 5th Edition book by Kobold Press has a pretty fleshed out Lizardfolk PC race, as well as some options for customizing Lizardfolk. I've taken that and added in some custom abilities of my own and broken down the customization even further.
In the world we're going to be playing in there are a number of different "Lizardfolk" though there are going to be 4 main groups, and not all of them are actually descended from Lizards.
I feel pretty good about most of the other three, but I'm a little iffy on the "Tortle" race I'm working on.
In order to capture the flavor of Turtles they've got a swim speed and the ability to hold their breath for a number of minutes equal to their constitution score. They've also got a bite attack that does 1d6 peircing damage. Their Ability Score increases are +2 Con +1 Wis. They've also got a shell that gives them a +3 Natural Armor bonus. This last one is the part that makes me a little unsure about balance and such.
In order to balance that +3 Natural AC bonus which is pretty powerful, I've done a few things and wanted to get some opinions on them. First, in order for that natural armor to stack with armor I've declared that armor must be custom made for Tortles, and that custom armor costs twice as much as regular armor. I've also said that existing armor can be customized for Tortles, at a cost of half the normal cost for that type of armor. I've also had this ability take up two "slots" so Tortles don't get the automatic proficiency in stealth that the "base" Lizardman in the Southlands book gets. Finally, and this is the big one, I've reduced their speed (both swim and walk) to 20.
That last one is the really big one. Is that too slow to be fun (ie will they spend all of their time just trying to get to opponents rather than actually fighting them? Is it necessary at all? Would slowing them down to 25 (like Dwarves) be enough to balance things out?
Other option are to just not make the AC bonus stack with armor at all, make the bonus a bit smaller, or maybe take away the bite attack?
The Lizardfolk NPC race in the DMG also has +3 AC that stacks (as far as I can tell), but they also get a -2 to Int, and as an NPC race don't have to be as well balanced as the PC races.
Thoughts? Am I overthinking things?
Edit: It's probably going to be easier to evaluate if I just post the whole write up for them isn't it? Here it is:
Tortles
Tortles are descended from turtles. They are large and extremely tough. their shells provide great protection against most attacks, and they can take a large amount of damage. They are slow, but relentless.
You gain the following abilities:
Ability Score Increase: Your Constitution score increases by 2, and your Wisdom score increases by 1.
Age: Tortles mature at a similar rate as humans. They have a longer lifespan. No one knows yet what the upper limits of a Tortle’s lifespan are. Many of those Tortles first created by the elves at the start of the war over a century ago (those few not killed by violence) are still alive.
Size: Your size is medium.
Speed: Your base walking speed is 20 feet.
Special Abilities:
Tortles have the following special abilities:
Swim Speed: You have a swim speed of 20 feet.
Hold Breath: You can hold your breath for a number of minutes equal to your Constitution score.
Hard Shell: You have a thick hard shell which provides great protection. You have a natural armor bonus of +3. This can stack with armor, but only if that armor is customized for use by Tortles. Customized armor costs twice as much as regular armor. Existing armor can be customized for a Tortle by a talented armorsmith for half the normal cost of that general type of armor.
Bite Attack: You have proficiency with your bite, which deals 1d6 piercing damage.
Originally posted by Elfcrusher:
Presumably their shell is only on their back, right? What if they have to consciously go into defensive mode (maybe even retracting into their shell) to get the bonus? Which means that any bonuses come with a cost. Ideas:
- When taking the Dodge action they gain resistance to slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing.
- On any round they can withdraw into their shell, imposing Disadvantage on attackers but suffering Disadvantage on their own attack rolls and making casting with somatic components impossible.
- As a Reaction they can withdraw partially into their shells, granting +2 AC and granting +2 to Dex saves versus spells.
Or something like that.
I like the idea of a turtle race, and I don't like most new race ideas. So that's saying something! (Maybe that I have terrible taste....)
Originally posted by DrOct:
Thanks! Those are all interesting ideas that I'll definitely think hard on! I'm still sort of leaning toward something a little simpler that requires a little less mental space/interaction (ie things that are reasonably passive), but none of those seem too difficult so... maybe!
Thanks for the suggestions!
Originally posted by WorBlade:
Turtles do have shell on the bottom - or front for a bipedal one. Thinner but it is there. Maybe a bipedal turte would develop a thinner bank and thicker front for preserving body mass in a resonable zone while sharing the protection arount. The Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles might not be the best physical example of what the race would like look as they have heavy tutrle shell backs.
Originally posted by DrOct:
I thought I'd post what we finally settled on for the Tortle! Feel free to use this an you see fit or make your own versions. If you do use it I'd love to hear how it worked, and see any changes you made!
Tortles
Tortles are descended from turtles and tortoises. They are large and extremely tough. their shells provide great protection against most attacks, and they are tough to injure. They are slow, but relentless.
As a Tortle your patience and endurance are far greater than most. You are at home in the water or the land. You gain the following abilities:
Ability Score Increase: Your Constitution score increases by 2, and your Wisdom score increases by 1.
Age: Tortles mature at a similar rate to humans. They have a longer lifespan. No one knows yet what the upper limits of a Tortle’s lifespan are. Some of those Tortles first created by the elves at the start of the war over a century ago (those few not killed by violence) are still alive.
Size: Your size is medium.
Speed: Your base walking speed is 25 feet.
Special Abilities:
Tortles have the following special abilities:
Swim Speed: You have a swim speed of 25 feet.
Hold Breath: You can hold your breath for a number of minutes equal to your Constitution score.
Hard Shell: You have a thick hard shell which provides great protection. You have a natural armor bonus of +2. This can stack with armor, but only if that armor is customized for use by Tortles. Customized armor costs one and a half times as much as regular armor. Existing armor can be customized for a Tortle by a talented armorsmith for half the normal cost of that general type of armor.
Natural Predator: Tortles can use their slow movement and ability to sit still for long periods of time to surprise enemies and prey.
You have proficiency with the Stealth skill.
