Tweaking encounters from a boxed adventure

[Kaziel]

I'm running all three of the Epic adventures that WotC put out a while back. Death's Reach, Kingdom of the Ghouls and Prince of Undeath. Catch is, my players are solid at making their characters and they've just been curb stomping the encounters as they are. They've been up against 1 -1 level, 2 equal level, and 2 +1 level encounters and they just now got to the point where one of the members used up all of his healing surges (and even then it was the Invoker who only has 8).

So I'm looking for tips on how to ramp up the encounters? There's the obvious answer of "Use more monsters" but how much of encounter level increase do people think I should make? Go for all +1s? Maybe some +1s and +2s? Also any other tips beyond just throwing bigger things and more of them at my party?

 

[Harleau]

I had a really interesting experience in our questing yesterday. We all used two characters that we had created (lvl 23) and had to fight on opposite sides with them. The biggest issue that we found was that when one side gets a huge initiative, especially at the level, the other side has no chance to win. The warlord on the evil side gave a +14 initiative to him and all allies, plus a +9 to attack rolls in the first round. No joke. If you want to ramp up the encounters a bit, I'd see about an increase in initiative of the monsters.

 

[keterys]

That... really doesn't sound like curb stomping. I mean, n-1 and n level encounters are supposed to be pushovers, and n+1 only starting to use up some resources. That a mere 5 easy and normal (no hard) encounters actually burned through all of someone's surges is notable.

It sounds like the adventure might start easy - wouldn't be surprised if there are some +2s - +4s coming up. Actually, shouldn't they only be 21st level starting that set of adventures?

 

[Kaziel]

Actually, shouldn't they only be 21st level starting that set of adventures?

Correct. They rolled a bunch of level 21 characters. Does that matter?

 

[renau1g]

Level 21 is what Death's Reach starts with, but I know my DM for it complained about the easiness of the encounters. As keterys says though if you are putting n-1 or n encounters against a group of reasonably optimized PC's they'll tear through it like a knife through butter. n+1 is also a fairly easy one. I might try to combine a few of the encounters for a more memorable battle. So the two combined n-1 encounters might be an n+3 or so fight... that'd be a more difficult challenge.

 

[Jack99]

I'm running all three of the Epic adventures that WotC put out a while back. Death's Reach, Kingdom of the Ghouls and Prince of Undeath. Catch is, my players are solid at making their characters and they've just been curb stomping the encounters as they are. They've been up against 1 -1 level, 2 equal level, and 2 +1 level encounters and they just now got to the point where one of the members used up all of his healing surges (and even then it was the Invoker who only has 8).

So I'm looking for tips on how to ramp up the encounters? There's the obvious answer of "Use more monsters" but how much of encounter level increase do people think I should make? Go for all +1s? Maybe some +1s and +2s? Also any other tips beyond just throwing bigger things and more of them at my party?

Don't - If your players got challenged at that level from that kind of encounters, they either suck or you are the greatest D&D tactician ever. Seriously, there should be plenty of challenges coming, if you keep the encounters as they are. Normally, most DM's find that they need to up their encounters to n+2 or higher in order to challenge their players at epic level.

 

[keterys]

Correct. They rolled a bunch of level 21 characters. Does that matter?

That was just my brain somehow combining the 2nd post about 23rd level characters as somehow related.

 

[renau1g]

Don't - If your players got challenged at that level from that kind of encounters, they either suck or you are the greatest D&D tactician ever. Seriously, there should be plenty of challenges coming, if you keep the encounters as they are. Normally, most DM's find that they need to up their encounters to n+2 or higher in order to challenge their players at epic level.

Actually that's a good point Jack, I wouldn't call running out of surges "curb-stomping" but rather either the defenders not defending or the Invoker rushing into a situation without thinking too far ahead. Either way, once they get to the real challenging fights... they could very easily be fubared.

 

[Jdvn1]

Kaziel, do you prefer your games a bit more lethal?

Also, it sounds like you're pretty early into the adventure--only 5 encounters in, or one extended rest's worth. If you have players running out of healing surges this early, it sounds pretty tough.

 

[Kaziel]

Kaziel, do you prefer your games a bit more lethal?

Also, it sounds like you're pretty early into the adventure--only 5 encounters in, or one extended rest's worth. If you have players running out of healing surges this early, it sounds pretty tough.

Okay, one thing I realized I forgot to mention is the lack of lethality of the encounters so far. While yes I have managed to burn through the healing surges of one of the players, at no point did they really feel like they were in much danger. I only managed to bloody the Invoker once. The rest have been fine. Additionally they've been getting buy pretty much just fine on their encounter powers. They've been mixing in using dailies, but mostly just to spice things up. Not because they feel threatened but just to use it.

If it matters the group consists of:
Fighter (multiclass Cleric)
Warlord (multiclass Paladin)
Avenger (multiclass Ranger)
Invoker (multiclass Cleric)
Monk (multiclass Rogue)

Now, my only real experience in 4th Ed beyond a few convention and D&D Game Day games is the other game I'm taking part in with this group. It's a Scales of War game set in Eberron and it seems to be a lot more dangerous. We have at least one person getting bloodied in most encounters. Maybe it's just because of the level difference, but it's a big contrast to me.