D&D 5E Twin Swords of Striking

[ScrubbWizard]

Creating a dual swords magic item. Would this be ok for 2nd level fighter? Or too powerful? It only gains bonuses on consecutive successful hits:

Twin Swords of Striking
Short swords, rare (requires attunement and two weapon fighting skill)

For each successful attack by the bearer with one of these weapons, their magical strength increases by +1. They reset to +0 at the end of the users turn.



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[jaelis]

I think it is a bit strong even for 2nd level. If the character gets an OA to start the chain, and then action surges, they would have four attacks on their turn going up to +4. The attacks all have to hit, but it's not that hard to arrange for advantage.

At level 20 you could get up to +9 with a surge.

But I think the biggest problem would be with rangers. Hunter ranger gets whirlwind attack, and IIRC the Xanathar's ranger gets a deal where they get extra attacks too. Both of those could pump the bonus up too high.

 

[ScrubbWizard]

Forgot about OA. But the first attack would be +0, so I think max +3 on the forth attack.

But still too strong, eh?

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[The Crimson Binome]

Would this be ok for 2nd level fighter? Or too powerful?

It's fine for a 2nd level fighter, because they only get two attacks per round (or three if they burn their Action Surge). If the first attack is at +0, and the second attack is at +1, then it averages out to less than +1 over all. Even during Action Surge, hitting with all three attacks still averages out to only +1 over the course of the round. The only "overpowered" part is that it's two magic weapons, which means both weapons get to overcome damage resistance (or immunity), but even that just puts it on par with a magical greatsword.

Even at high levels, it shouldn't be too powerful. Once you get your second Extra Attack, so you're making seven attacks during an Action Surge, that's still only adding 28 damage if they all hit. A flametongue is still more powerful, since it adds seven damage to every attack regardless.

Honestly, I would consider making this more powerful. To balance it against a simple +1, I would remove the requirement that it only improves on a successful hit, so the second attack is always at +1 and the third attack is always at +2. Plus, that way you don't have to deal with narrating the difference between a hit and a miss in regards to how this weapon works.

 

[FrogReaver]

Seems fiddly but not overpowered on a fighter.

 

[jaelis]

Forgot about OA. But the first attack would be +0, so I think max +3 on the forth attack.

Yes that's right, sorry for the bad math. I do think that is just a bit strong at 2nd level, and gets considerably stronger once the number of attacks start to pile up.

I mean, imagine a Fighter 2/Ranger (Hunter) 11, under the effect of a haste spell, and surrounded by 8 enemies:
Action: WWA: 8 attacks
Bonus action: 1 attack
Haste action: 1 attack
Action surge: WWA: 8 attacks

That's a lot!

If you don't plan on using it at high levels then you're probably OK, and if your player isn't the type to optimize for it, then again, it's quite good but probably fine. (And just to set the scale, IMO a plain +1 weapon is already "quite good" for second level.)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I like the idea. I also imagine not everyone is going to hit with those first attacks.

 

[Sunseeker]

I think you could make them more "balanced" by making them reset to 0 on a miss.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yes that's right, sorry for the bad math. I do think that is just a bit strong at 2nd level, and gets considerably stronger once the number of attacks start to pile up.

I mean, imagine a Fighter 2/Ranger (Hunter) 11, under the effect of a haste spell, and surrounded by 8 enemies:
Action: WWA: 8 attacks
Bonus action: 1 attack
Haste action: 1 attack
Action surge: WWA: 8 attacks

That's a lot!

If you don't plan on using it at high levels then you're probably OK, and if your player isn't the type to optimize for it, then again, it's quite good but probably fine. (And just to set the scale, IMO a plain +1 weapon is already "quite good" for second level.)

So when the stars align and you can move such that you can attack 8 enemies with WWA and then move such that you can attack them again with your action surge action you can do decent AOE damage. It's doubtful your still doing any more than a fireball at that point.

How about we look at the real benchmark for melee combatants and that is single target damage.

 

[jaelis]

So when the stars align and you can move such that you can attack 8 enemies with WWA and then move such that you can attack them again with your action surge action you can do decent AOE damage. It's doubtful your still doing any more than a fireball at that point.

How about we look at the real benchmark for melee combatants and that is single target damage.

That sounds like you’re saying that since the worst case scenario is unlikely, we should only consider the best case. But I guess that’s not what you mean. Anyway, we can get a feel for the numbers.

Suppose it is 7 mooks and one bbeg. We start with a 2/3 chance to hit the mooks and 1/3 to hit the bbeg. Start with a WWA, hitting mooks first. Odds are you’ll hit at least five of them, bringing your bonus to +5. Now you have a 60% chance to hit the bbeg. Suppose you miss.

Now action surge and do it again. Now you’ll probably hit all the mooks, and you’re done missing. Finish with a hit on the bbeg at +12. Finally, bonus action twf and haste attack vs the bbeg. Two more hits at +13 and +14.

Compared to normal swords, you got 2 extra hits vs mooks, thats 17 damage for weapon plus dex. You also netted +55 damage from the weapon plusses, against the mooks only. So that’s 72 damage total, or about 10 per mook. Call it a 3d6 area effect.

Against the bbeg you hit two more times (+17 dng), and got bonus damage of +39. So that’s +56 all together, in terms of extra single-target damage.

So that’s sort of a rough extreme case scenario for what the weapons are worth at level 13.