Pathfinder 1E Two-Weapon Fighting Attacks Per Round

[koesherbacon]

Hey everyone. I've got a question about two-weapon fighting. I've been doing the following when figuring out attacks per round for characters with the two-weapon fighting feat tree. It might not be correct since it's just the way I learned to do it way back in the day and I could have been taught incorrectly and been doing it that way ever since.

Let's take this character I'm making right now in Hero Lab as an example.

• Jaan Tryu
• Halfling
• Barbarian 15
• Abilities (with magic items): Str 20, Dex 23, Con 24, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
• Feats: Feats Combat Reflexes (7 AoO/round), Double Slice, Extra Rage, Greater Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Two-weapon Fighting, Two-weapon Rend, Weapon Finesse

Now the way I've always figured out the attacks per round would be this:

• Primary Weapon (+4 Keen Speed Dagger): +24/+24/+19/+14
• Off-Hand Weapon (+4 Keen Vorpal Dagger): +24/+19/+14

That would give the Barbarian in the example above 7 attacks per round, all with Weapon Finesses obviously. 4 with the primary weapon from the speed quality, 3 with the off-hand from all the TWF feats. Is that right? If it's not right, how exactly would I figure out how many attacks per round that Barbarian would have with the two daggers I've listed?

Thanks so much!

 

[Kasbark]

I haven't checked your math (on your total to-hit bonus), but the number of attacks is correct.

 

[ggeilman]

While your math may or may not be correct, I don't know where you are getting all of the gold here. A 15th level character has 240,000 GP. The first dagger alone cost 123,302 GP, the belt for Con and Dex another 90,000 and you still don't have anything for strength or the 2nd weapon. Of that 240,000 only 25% is supposed to go to weapons so you are way over even with the first weapon and the vorpal would be even more at 162,302!

 

[billd91]

While your math may or may not be correct, I don't know where you are getting all of the gold here. A 15th level character has 240,000 GP. The first dagger alone cost 123,302 GP, the belt for Con and Dex another 90,000 and you still don't have anything for strength or the 2nd weapon. Of that 240,000 only 25% is supposed to go to weapons so you are way over even with the first weapon and the vorpal would be even more at 162,302!

Who knows what parameters he's operating under? This might be just a thought experiment for all we know. The value of the gear isn't really the topic of the conversation.

 

[koesherbacon]

I mainly included for the speed property because our bard loves to cast Haste on the party. But it sounds like regardless of the gear, the amount of attacks pre round is correct.

Thanks

 

[Rakusia]

could just be heirlooms? i get hand me down knives and belts. if it could happen in rl why not in game?

 

[Tovec]

Hey everyone. I've got a question about two-weapon fighting. I've been doing the following when figuring out attacks per round for characters with the two-weapon fighting feat tree. It might not be correct since it's just the way I learned to do it way back in the day and I could have been taught incorrectly and been doing it that way ever since.

Let's take this character I'm making right now in Hero Lab as an example.

• Jaan Tryu
• Halfling
• Barbarian 15
• Abilities (with magic items): Str 20, Dex 23, Con 24, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
• Feats: Feats Combat Reflexes (7 AoO/round), Double Slice, Extra Rage, Greater Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Two-weapon Fighting, Two-weapon Rend, Weapon Finesse

Now the way I've always figured out the attacks per round would be this:

• Primary Weapon (+4 Keen Speed Dagger): +24/+24/+19/+14
• Off-Hand Weapon (+4 Keen Vorpal Dagger): +24/+19/+14

That would give the Barbarian in the example above 7 attacks per round, all with Weapon Finesses obviously. 4 with the primary weapon from the speed quality, 3 with the off-hand from all the TWF feats. Is that right? If it's not right, how exactly would I figure out how many attacks per round that Barbarian would have with the two daggers I've listed?

Thanks so much!

Attack: ( 15/10/5* + 15** + 15/10/5** ) + ( -2*** ) + ( 6***** ) + ( 4****** ) + ( 1******* ) = 24/19/14 + 24 + 24/19/14
* Full BAB for lvl 15 Barbarian
** Speed Weapon
*** Full TWF tree
**** Minimum penalty, using light weapons
***** DEX bonus
****** +4 Weapon
******* +1 on attacks for being a halfling

Your calculation is good. 24p/24p/24s/19p/19s/14p/14s. 7 Attacks at those totals. You don't get 7 AoOs though, combat reflexes is equal to DEX bonus, yours is a +6. (p and s are "Primary" and "Secondary" respectively.)

Who knows what parameters he's operating under? This might be just a thought experiment for all we know. The value of the gear isn't really the topic of the conversation.

Still something good to bring up IMHO. A lot of people will build something using stats they aren't quite sure of as placeholders then when it comes time to play it they'll forget and assume they should have stats/gear that is actually wrong/too expensive for their level.

 

[koesherbacon]

Yeah, I typically DM and at this level most of my enemies are spellcaster so calculating attack bonuses is usually put on the back-burner. Plus, as the DM, I can fudge numbers, dice rolls and everything else depending on how an encounter is going. I can't tell you how many times I've lowered/raised ACs, saves, hit points and so forth to make the encounters more enjoyable for me and my players.

One of my players as expressed interest in DMing once we end our current campaign arch so I wanted to get a rough idea about who I will want to play. I typically play Clerics, where attack bonus also does not matter as much at this level since I'd primarily be a spellcaster, healer and buffer. And although I've been playing DND ever since Elf was a class, I want to play something outside my usual comfort-zone. Something about Barbarian appeals to me since the party does not really have a tank. I know that Barbarian isn't as much of a tank as a Fighter or Paladin, but who cares about being hit more frequently when you have 200 more HP than anybody else in the party, right? And I've never seen anyone really pull off a two-weapon Barbarian so why not give it a try, you know?

I use Hero Lab to create my characters (and enemies) which thankfully does all the calculations for me. I just want to make sure that I understand how everything works when I switch from being a DM who is allowed (and at times encouraged) to cheat to playing someone who abides by all the rules

 

[ggeilman]

You can add the affects of haste in the conditions section of HeroLab w/o radically breaking with WBL is my point. HeroLab is an effective tool for checking out the affects of various spells, etc. I have also been playing/dming for over 30 years myself most of it 1E. I try and NOT fudge rolls, etc during the combat unless something really doesn't make sense. While I am not a slave to WBL, I still use it as a guide to see how the players are doing and see if I need to add/decrease the amount of treasure they are receiving and what level of magic they should have.

 

[koesherbacon]

The thing with HeroLab is that we typically print out our sheets because we don't like having computers at the table since they cause so many distractions. Even without meaning to, I've caught players being distracted by their technology loads of times. I don't mind if you have your phone out as a calculator or something, but its when people get on Facebook that it really bothers me.

Which leads to my absolute worst hated phrase in DND playing, "Wait, I was on Facebook. What happened?"

AAAARRRRRGGGGGGG! If I could throw your computer or smartphone into our pool without you suing me, I would.