UA: V/WP - what about this?

[Quixon]

Right, if they stacked then a Scythe wielding weapon master / psychic weapon master would have a crit range of 5-20!

I am not following James. A Scythe has a Crit range of 20/x4. So if you had a Keen weapon or Improved critical (since only one would count) it would only go to 19-20/x4. A Weapon Master with same would only drop it to 17-20/x4 and even then only if you let it stack since the RAW don't allow it, though I know Andy Collins has said he thinks it probably should. I can't speak about Psionics, never used them.

EDIT: Nevermind lol. I just read the article on the WotC website and see how you got those numbers. I didn't realize how they changed the crit range for the Vp/Wp system.

 

[Ranger REG]

does anyone see the motivation for having crits ignore DR? This is basically opposite of what their other vita/wounds systems have done wherein DR only applies to wound damage (most often from crits).

This just seems a little backwards to me.

The system have changed so that DR now protects both VP and WP (when VP is reduced to zero; all normal attacks now apply to WP).

 

[Wombat]

Okay, I read through the article and I have a question -- how does this affect magic, or does it? Is it a matter of fireballs only do Vitality damage? Or is there something like the Hero system damage -- 1 point of Body for every die of Vitality?

Thoughts? Questions? Suggestions? Serving Trays?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Damn, this is just plain nasty. How do you account for Power Criticals, Augmented Criticals, Keen weapons or Hunter's Mercy?

These are pretty much confirmed crits and would kill most characters right off the bat. Even a tough barbarian only has his Con in WP? Even raging, one crit by a good fighter and he's taking a dirtnap.

Power critical is no longer a confirmed crit - it's a +4 to confirm a crit.

Keen weapons are by no means confirmed crits, although they are good.

Hunters mercy was always pure cheese.

Augmented criticals is an epic ability, isn't it? What exactly does it do?

 

[AeroDm]

Simple answer: in normal circumstances a crit multiplies your damage and thus gives you more chance of bypassing DR. In this WP/VP setup you don't multiply damage on crits, thus you reduce the DR instead to give a comparable effect (i.e. crits help overcome DR).

Where they may have got it wrong (I've not seen the whole article) is that clearly creatures which are immune to crits should *still* be immune to crits, thus when attacking oozes, elementals, constructs and undead you should still apply full DR (since in normal 'hp' D&D you wouldn't be getting a weapon multiplier to punch through their DR 'cos you can't crit them).

Cheers

Ahh. Excellent rationale. Thanks.

 

[GiantInThePlayground]

Where they may have got it wrong (I've not seen the whole article) is that clearly creatures which are immune to crits should *still* be immune to crits, thus when attacking oozes, elementals, constructs and undead you should still apply full DR (since in normal 'hp' D&D you wouldn't be getting a weapon multiplier to punch through their DR 'cos you can't crit them).

I don't think they got this wrong. It says that a critical hit bypasses DR, not any hit against Wound points. A creature that has as part of its description "Immune to Critical Hits" can never be hit with a critical in the first place, and thus no attack under this system will automatically bypass their DR.

In other words, a skeleton is still immune to criticals based on its MM description, regardless of the redefinition of what that critical entails. Its DR 5/bludgeoning applies to all attacks, even if you roll a 20 on the die.

 

[Nifelhein]

I don't think they got this wrong. It says that a critical hit bypasses DR, not any hit against Wound points. A creature that has as part of its description "Immune to Critical Hits" can never be hit with a critical in the first place, and thus no attack under this system will automatically bypass their DR.

In other words, a skeleton is still immune to criticals based on its MM description, regardless of the redefinition of what that critical entails. Its DR 5/bludgeoning applies to all attacks, even if you roll a 20 on the die.

And that is exactly why I made the thread, that is exactly the opposite of what is written on WotC website excerpt from UA...

And I liked those ideas of the critical immune and of the sneak attack doing 1 point of damage for each die...

But it bugs me, if I have an excerpt with problem, what stops e from believing that the book is not? I may ask about this in a different thread.

By the way, are there sneak attacks in Star Wars, by any chance?

 

[Vocenoctum]

It indeed looks interesting, in my opinion, but at some point it would be a real problem, a fighter with weapon specialization in longsword and a medium stat would have a +4 to damage, if he critical hits, consider he wields a longsword, he has a chance to kill the character.

This character would be 4th level by then, of course it looks good, what I think would be needed is a kind of chance for the players to take their characters out of this situation, thus something like action points from d20 mdoern, although I am not familiar with it, read it once only.

A raging half orc barbarian with a great axe and 20 strength would crit on 19-20, and do 1d12+10 damage. How many creatures of any level have Con 11-22?

Course, under normal stuff, he'd have to roll a 20 for 3d12+30 damage, which is more than enough to kill anything in his CR range, but I think the Wound Point system broaden's his killing ability to a higher level, and it'd happen more often.

Basically, Wound/ Vitality takes your deaths door HP (-1 to -10) and makes them a seperate HP system. Might be more "realistic", but I don't like the way it works. Ah well, normal HP are good enough for me!

 

[Wombat]

Okay, I think I missed on my comment, so I'll try a slightly different tack on this aspect.

Spells do not have a chance to do Criticals.

Under a V/WP only Criticals go straight to WP.

This means that spells can only do the slow wear down on characters -- there is no such thing as "one shot, one kill" with, say, a Magic Missile or a Fireball.

I feel that spells need to be addressed in such a system.

Am I alone in this thought?

 

[James McMurray]

Hunters mercy was always pure cheese.

But at least with Ghostwalk it was fixed. Using that version you instead threaten a critical with your first shot that hits in the next round, instead of just automatically having your next shot hit and crit.