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UA: Why 3d6 for the "Bell Curve" variant, instead of 2d10?

Azlan

First Post
I'm of the opinion that the Unearthed Arcana is not a well thought as it should've been.

One of the variants that initially sounds appealing to me, but ends up rubbing me wrong, is the "bell curve" variant that uses 3d6 to replace all d20 rolls. But why 3d6? To me, that's going from one extreme to another. Wouldn't 2d10 be a better alternative than 3d6?

First of all, there are many good reasons for going with the bell curve roll, rather than a single, linear die roll, for saving throws, skill rolls, etc. On the following webpage, a guy explains those reasons well with his "Linear vs Non-Linear Dice" essay...

http://www.frontiernet.net/~jamesstarlight/LinearVsNonLinear.html

Myself, I've long since come to the conclusion that "non-linear" is the better way to go. But, 3d6... ?! No, if you're going to go non-linear, then using 2d10 is better than using 3d6.

For one thing, with 2d10 you get almost the same range of numbers as you do with a d20; i.e. 2-20 with 2d10, compared to 1-20 with a d20; whereas with 3d6, you get a range of only 3-18.

For another thing, the bell curve created by using 2d10 is less extreme than the one created by using 3d6; i.e. with 2d10 you have better chances of rolling the numbers on each end of the range than you do with 3d6. So, although you are still making an impact on the game system by using 2d10, it's less than it would be with 3d6.

BTW: With the 3d6 bell curve variant, the threat ranges of criticals are increased by 1, right? But with the extreme bell curve created by using 3d6, increasing the threat ranges by 1 does not suffice, because you are still getting much less a chance for rolling within a weapon's increased threat range than you would be with a d20 rolling within the original threat range. However, with a 2d10 bell curve, increasing the threat ranges by 1 is adequate, because this way you are close enough to getting the same chance for rolling within a weapon's increased threat range as you would be with a d20 within the original threat range.
 
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Creamsteak

Explorer
Sounds about right to me. Go ahead with the 2d10 if you please. 3d6 is far more awkward than 2d10, and although I'm not a fan of the bell curve dice, that would seem a more logical way to go.
 

reiella

Explorer
Hmm, maybe it's me, but I sorta thought the idea was for an extrem-ish bell-curve. 3d6 also trims both end-points equally (1+2, and 19+20). The thought is that the 3d6 spread is closer to a normal distribution than a 2d10 system.
 

Planesdragon

First Post
Azlan said:
To me, that's going from one extreme to another. Wouldn't 2d10 be a better alternative than 3d6?

Maybe.

Except that GURPS uses 3d6, (commoner) ability scores use 3d6, and everyone and their brother can find 3d6.
 

Zappo

Explorer
I'm curious, but I don't own the book yet. How do critical threats work? Increased by one? This means axe is 17-18, sword is 16-18 and rapier is 15-18? I'm not sure on the math, but I think this is very heavily in favor of rapier-like weapons.

Also, can you still take 20 or do you take 18 instead? If so, do you need 20 times the normal time, or 18 times, or (more correctly) 216 times the normal time?

Edit: more on the topic, I agree with the 3d6 for a bell-curve substitute to 1d20, for all the reasons mentioned. The average is correctly 10.5 as opposed to the 11 of 2d10, it cuts off exactly two numbers at both sides, d6s are more common and more newbie-friendly, and it distances itself more from the d20 (not much point in a new rule if it's very similar to the old one).
 
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reiella

Explorer
Zappo said:
I'm curious, but I don't own the book yet. How do critical threats work? Increased by one? This means axe is 17-18, sword is 16-18 and rapier is 15-18? I'm not sure on the math, but I think this is very heavily in favor of rapier-like weapons.

20/ 16-18
19-20/ 15-18
18-20/ 14-18
17-20/ 14-18
15-20/ 13-18

This is an attempt to make the threat ranges approximate the 5% increments they represented with a d20.

Of course, I don't quite get the 'weapons still improve in every way" aspect it claims with the 18-20 ~ 17-20 flat-spot, but oh well.
 

Zappo

Explorer
reiella said:
Of course, I don't quite get the 'weapons still improve in every way" aspect it claims with the 18-20 ~ 17-20 flat-spot, but oh well.
Thanks. They probably say so because you can only obtain a 17-20 if you Keen (or Imp Critical) a 19-20 weapon, while there's no way that I know to get from 18-20 to 17-20. They probably worry more about not making Imp Critical useless, rather than approximating the d20 model exactly.
 

reiella

Explorer
Zappo said:
Thanks. They probably say so because you can only obtain a 17-20 if you Keen (or Imp Critical) a 19-20 weapon, while there's no way that I know to get from 18-20 to 17-20. They probably worry more about not making Imp Critical useless, rather than approximating the d20 model exactly.

Ah thanks, that is about what it trying to say, I just didn't grasp it I guess :).
 

Azlan

First Post
Planesdragon said:
Maybe.

Except that GURPS uses 3d6, (commoner) ability scores use 3d6, and everyone and their brother can find 3d6.

My counterpoints are...

1. Yes, but that's GURPS. This is D&D. The former is more grimly realistic and unforgiving than the latter.

2. One method for generating ability scores does indeed use 3d6 (and only 3d6), but very few players settle for that method. (The method that uses 4d6, dropping the lowest die and keeping the other three, is a far more popular method.)

3. While finding 3d6 is easy enough, you still need all those other dice -- d4, d6, d8, d12, etc. -- for damage rolls and what not.
 

swrushing

First Post
i thought it was fairly clear... they wanted to give you a bell curve and wanted it sufficiently bell curvey to matter... so 3d6 (not at all unlike a d10+5) is a good commonly used very bell curvey one to pick.
 

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