Ugly (or low Charisma) = evil?

[Afrodyte]

To what extent is it true that, in D&D at least, if something is ugly, it's probably evil? As a corollary to that, to what extent does D&D support the idea that a character who is charming, insightful, and regal is likely to be good whereas the one who is gruff, socially awkward, and smelly is likely to be evil? To what extent is this trend understandable or justifiable? What about good/evil outsiders? In your games, does their appearance indicate their natures? What about celestial and infernal templates and races? Would players be able to draw conclusions like: "Hm. Agile. Clever. Red eyes, smells a bit like smoke, not too good-looking. Definitely not a people person. Must be a tiefling" or "sleek and beautiful with a glow. Must be a celestial"?

If you somehow buck this trend, I'm also interested in knowing how you do it. Do you make evil characters all the more endowed with personal magnetism and social skills? Do you make your infernals as charming, socialable, and magnetic as the celestials? Do you deliberately play with the idea that you cannot judge a book by its cover?

Everything above does not apply to illithids because the idea of brain-eating, squid-faced aliens is strangely appropriate.

 

[Voadam]

dwarves are lawful good.

Succubi are beautiful and persuasive.

 

[Afrodyte]

That's two out of...how many?

 

[Ahnehnois]

One would expect this type of correlation.

If good and nonviolence are connected, then charismatic types can and will likely get what they want using their personality, not force, and thus be less likely to be evil. Low-charisma types often must resort to violence or theft to survive. No one likes them, so they are more likely to dislike everyone else in return.

As above-mentioned, this is overall only a slight trend with many notable exceptions.

 

[gideonn]

low charisma and ugly

Back in the days when I rolled dice to generate PCs, using 3d6, I came up with many good numbers, and one 3. I put the 3 in charisma. I decided that it would mean her face was disfigured in some horrible way. But how could she move about in public. I had her wear a veil and acutally called her 'The Veiled One.' She was cleric, can't recall which Greyhawk deity, with an alignment of lawful good.

One day one of the other PCs decided to peak under her veil when she was asleep. The DM decided a save v fear was in order. That became a house rule for her.

So in her charisma and her appearance went hand in hand, yet she could still be a good person.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Ever read Lord of Light by Zelzany, when Sam is giving his speech about the actions of people as horrible or ugly as being evil... If it revolts you, you will see it as bad.

I think I would believe a beautiful succubi was good before an ugly dwarf.


But as always CHR is not appearance.

 

[Rystil Arden]

That's two out of...how many?

In my campaign, the characters met with both Tiamat and Bahamut, at a point where Bahamut was ahead in their eternal conflict. They asked Bahamut for one of his scales, and he told them that they needed to prove themselves worthy by defeating Tiamat first, etc. The character was annoyed. They met with Tiamat, who chatted them up amicably and gave them "Tiamat's Layer in Avernus" souvenirs, and before the end, some of the Chaotic Good characters had decided to help Tiamat kill Bahamut instead!

 

[Rystil Arden]

Ever read Lord of Light by Zelzany, when Sam is giving his speech about the actions of people as horrible or ugly as being evil... If it revolts you, you will see it as bad.

I think I would believe a beautiful succubi was good before an ugly dwarf.


But as always CHR is not appearance.

I actually created a concept for a character who had 18 Intelligence and Charisma, but 1 Wisdom. She was unable to perceive reality around her correctly, and so she attempted to use her Intelligence to create heuristic rules that she would then use as if they were law. One of the rules was that "pretty things are good and ugly things are bad." It worked pretty well for her, actually.

 

[Henry]

To what extent is it true that, in D&D at least, if something is ugly, it's probably evil? As a corollary to that, to what extent does D&D support the idea that a character who is charming, insightful, and regal is likely to be good whereas the one who is gruff, socially awkward, and smelly is likely to be evil?

I've seen creatures that buck this trend. For instance:

Aranea - big monstrous spider-people, but they're just Neutral joes trying to get by, and they tend to subdue and hold for ransom instead of eating enemies.

Azers - some rather blunt, dwarf-dudes on fire but are rather Lawful and neutral.

Couatl - Lawful good rainbow-snakes with wings! Beautiful? Tell that to an ophidi-phobe.

Drow Elves - graceful, beautiful of proportion, hearts of pure evil. However, there's another stereotype that drow usually get saddled with... :\

Guardian Nagas - human head, snake body, but good.

Treant - a tree that walks - not necessarily fiendish, but but exactly anthropomorphic loveliness.

Will-o-wisp - Glowing ball of graceful light that lures adventurers to doom.

Do you make your infernals as charming, socialable, and magnetic as the celestials? Do you deliberately play with the idea that you cannot judge a book by its cover?

Remember that one of the tenets of D&D is that axiomatic creatures (such as devils, demons, and celestials) reflect outwardly often the truth of their inward beliefs. So a devil will always have a hard look to his features, even if physically beautiful - a deva or solar will always glow radiantly, etc. With my regular D&D games (Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, etc.) I'll follow stereotypes 75% of the time, because it's easiest to play with; the players will have an easier time crushing the bad guy if he or she is not only evil, but has few redeeming features. I'll throw 'em a curveball now and again, but most of the time, after dealing with grey areas in the real world, it's nice to smash someone you know is evil.

On the other hand, playing in Eberron, I've changed things up here and there more frequently, because I wanted to showcase that feature of the world. Their patron was a well-to-do Bugbear (excuse me, Ildar) from Darguun; They took a ride and alliance with a female green dragon Druid halflway through the story; They've fought things that should have been good by the books, and even allied themselves with presecuted werewolves against paladins!

But in the end, stereotypes are easy to grasp, use in a story, and resolve quickly. When a creature is different, oftentimes that IS part of the story.

 

[PK]

Never trust the really good looking, smooth talking NPCs. They are NEVER good.