Ulimate Monk Armor....?

[Nail]

Interesting isn't the word I would use. "Cheesy", "broken", "bad form", and "just plain wrong" all come to mind.

Glad to have your opinion!

(How about some arguements to back your assertions up?)

...But it's not "just plain wrong". As Thanee just said, having a high AC is necessary, and stacking bonuses is a major piece of the rules.

Consider: many melee foes at CR ~16 automatically hit ACs in the 20's, and without much effort on the DM's part foes can easily hit stuff up into the 30's. Yeeowch!

This is a Monk we're talking about here. Hardly a Paragon of Hit Points!

So, again: Why (or why not) are stacking AC bonuses in one item "different", as defined by the Creating a Magic Item section in the DMG?

 

[DanMcS]

"Similar" is not meant to be solely a magic staff power; several rods, rings, and even an occasional magical Robe or two use the formula. Why not here?

In this Robe's case, all the bonuses are to AC. How much more similar can you get?

They're different types. Natural, sacred, insight, armor. The multiplier on secondary effects is there to prevent exactly this type of minmaxed lameness.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Your pricing is off as stated you didn't the double the cost of the secondary effects. With out the 30% monk decrease (which if I were DM I proably wouldn't allow you to do) it should come to 88k. With the 30% decrease it should come to 61.6K.

If you want a decent AC do this istead:
Bracers of Armor +5 25k
Amulet of Natural Armor +3 18k
Ring of Deflection +3 18k
Something of Dex +2 4k (+1 AC and +1 to a bunch of other stuff)
Something of Wisdom +2 4k (ditto above)
Total: +13 AC 69k GP

+13 AC and with out having to make a whole new magic item. Now if you're munchkin enough you can get all those items meant for monks. But I wouldn't do it or allow it.

 

[brehobit]

*Warning math "flame" incoming*

Since costs are exponential and you can stack the bonuses together, it is obviously better to aquire multiple low bonuses than single high bonuses.

The word you want is quadratic, not exponential.

Sorry, pet pieve, I'll be good now...

Oh, and I agree with Thanee. The only thing I'd question is the discount for monks only. Given the rules as written, it does work. But in general, the inability to "share" many items is really a very small disadvantage.

 

[Nail]

But <stacking multiple bonuses> comes at a disadvantage. For example, if you have covered all standard bonuses there, you won't be able to benefit from a spell cast on you.

I believe this is an advantage. Less spells needed to buff you = more spells available to cast at foes, nicht whar?

I'm not a very experienced combat master, but I've noticed that winning combats has as much to do with numbers of actions you have as anything else. Ideally, you'd like each of your side's actions to make a difference, while limiting how many useful actions the enemy can take.

 

[Nail]

They're different types.

Not sufficient.

It's clear that a bonus to AC and a bonus to Save (for example) are different things, even if they use the same bonus type (like Insight, say).

But it's not at all clear that several bonuses to AC are "different". You seem to believe differently. Why?

 

[Nail]

Your pricing is off as stated you didn't the double the cost of the secondary effects.

That's not how the pricing system works for secondary effects that are in a magic item that takes up a body slot.

If you want a decent AC do this instead:

Already did the bonus to Wis and Dex. That's a given , frankly, and not included in the "Robe question".

As for your specific suggestion:
Armor bonuses are cheap, true...but given limited resources, you're better off going after lower bonuses for other AC boosts, like Luck, Sacred, or Insight......given you have enough body slots to spend, etc, etc.

Either way, your suggestion gives him only a +13 AC. For a Monk 16, that's too low!

 

[RillianPA]

Nail,

Unfortunately the designers were not clear when they described what "similar powers" are. I believe that they meant powers which could not be used at the same time. I understand that this statement diverges from the exact text, but if you look at the context (all the various items that use the rule), you will find that the discount only applies if the powers cannot be activated/used at the same time. So, for example, an item that grants the abilities to Fly, Feather Fall, and Jump, would be discounted because the powers are similar, but more importantly, because they cannot be used together (Yes, you can have all 3 running, but you can only actually do one at a time).

In the case of your robe, while the powers could certainly be called similar, they can all be used at the same time, and therefore are more advantageous, not less. This is why the robe would require the full 1.5 multiplier for the extra powers.

 

[Thanee]

The word you want is quadratic, not exponential.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Wish]

If you really want to minmax this, the best way to do it is to figure out the incremental cost of each point of AC from any given source, budget a certain expenditure for AC, and calculate the best available AC for the budget.

I'm going to operate on the assumption that you aren't cheesy enough to try to claim both a sacred and profane bonus to AC on the same character, and that you're limiting yourself to the AC boosts actually described in the DMG (armor, shield, nat armor, deflection, luck, sacred, and insight, plus stat mods). I'll also ignore, in the analysis, any secondary effects that might make stat boost items more attractive than comparable AC boosts from other sources. The costs assume all bonuses are slotted and at standard x1 cost multiplier. You can create your own tables of costs per point of AC if you apply the cost multipliers to certain bonuses.

The incremental cost for an armor item (such as bracers of armor) is as follows for the first 8 points (non-epic):
1000 gp, 3k, 5k, 7k, 9k, 11k, 13k, 15k

A shield bonus is hard to come by for a monk, since shields really screw up their abilities. However, if the DM allows it (and you're the DM, so why not?) you can create an item with a permanent shield spell for a 4 AC bonus and a cost of only 4000 gp. Off the charts cheese, but that doesn't seem to be an issue. I've also neglected entirely both polymorph type magic and the option to pick up a permanent reduce person spell. Reduce person is one of the cheapest AC bonuses you could get (2 AC for 4000gp), but really pretty useless given its effects on offensive ability.

Wisdom and Dexterity enhancers have incremental AC costs of:
4000 gp, 12k, 20k.

Wisdom and Dexterity inherent bonuses have incremental AC costs of:
55k, 55k.

Deflection and Natural Armor bonuses cost:
2k, 6k, 10k, 14k, 18k.

Insight, Luck and Sacred bonuses cost:
2.5k, 7.5k, 12.5k, 19k, 22k.

A Haste bonus (based on permanent haste item) costs:
120k.

A Monk's Belt costs:
13k.

Your standard 16th level PC has 260k to throw around. If you budget 100k to AC, you would come up with:
Shield spell item (4k, 4AC)
Armor item +6 (36k, 6AC)
Natural armor and Deflection items +3 each (36k, 6AC)
Insight, Sacred, and Luck items +2 each (30k, 6AC)
Wisdom and Dex items +2 each (8k, 2AC)
For a total of 104k spent and 24 AC, giving a total AC of 34 + base Wis and Dex mods. Around a total AC of 40-42 for a monk with good stats.

With a budget of 165k you would increase:
Wis and Dex items to +4 each (24k, 2 AC)
Sacred, Insight and Luck items to +3 each (37.5k, 3 AC)
For a total of 165.5k spent and 29 AC (total AC 39 + base wis and dex mods).

If you want to blow most of your budget on AC, you would add:
Monk's Belt (13k, 1 AC)
Armor Item to +8 (28k, 2 AC)
Deflection and natural armor items to +4 (28k, 2 AC)
For a total of 234.5k spent and 34 AC (total AC 44 + base dex and wis modifiers)