Pathfinder 1E Ultimate Equipment Character Kit Weights

[knottyprof]

Not sure where my math is going wrong but while piecing out a Ranger's Kit my calculations came up with 41.5 lbs not 28 lbs.
Backpack 2 lbs, Bedroll 5 lbs, Belt Pouch 1/2 lb, Iron Pot 4 lbs, Mess Kit 1 lb, Rope 10 lbs, 10 Torches (at 1 lb each) for 10 lbs, 5 days of trail rations (at 1 lb each) for 5 lbs, and a waterskin (full) 4 lbs. This comes out to 41.5 lbs, not 28. Briefly looking at the other Character kits they all seem to be off by 10 lbs or so. Am I adding something into it that isn't considered to encumber the character?

 

[Clyde Lee Graham]

Not sure where my math is going wrong but while piecing out a Ranger's Kit my calculations came up with 41.5 lbs not 28 lbs.
Backpack 2 lbs, Bedroll 5 lbs, Belt Pouch 1/2 lb, Iron Pot 4 lbs, Mess Kit 1 lb, Rope 10 lbs, 10 Torches (at 1 lb each) for 10 lbs, 5 days of trail rations (at 1 lb each) for 5 lbs, and a waterskin (full) 4 lbs. This comes out to 41.5 lbs, not 28. Briefly looking at the other Character kits they all seem to be off by 10 lbs or so. Am I adding something into it that isn't considered to encumber the character?

No, they intentionally changed the weights on some of them to reflect 'better packing' or some such... also, the prices don't match on the kits either. It's been discussed damn near ad nauseum on the Paizo forums.

I find it doubly frustrating because Hero Lab implemented the kits with printed prices and weights, but doesn't break them apart... so they recommend you add the items separately (as free purchase) after paying for the kit (and then selling it back for 0%). Lone Wolf's logic being that that way you get the price discount. Unfortunately, it generally weighs more.

And then, there's the problem that all of the kits assume no low-light or dark vision... since damn near all of them include 10lbs of torches.

 

[knottyprof]

Yeah, I ran into the Paizo forums after I posted here. Personnally I would rather see a real number for the kit totals and then add a rule under Weights and Encumberance that items packed efficiently in a backpack can get an encumberance adjustment (maybe 75% of actual weight).

 

[delericho]

No, they intentionally changed the weights on some of them to reflect 'better packing' or some such...

That's absurd. So, the PC is able to pack exactly those items at a weight discount, but if they choose to omit items it suddenly becomes impossible? What happens when they use some of the rations?

As knottyprof says, far better to offer an adjustment for "efficient packing". Of course, then you have to have a rule to decide whether the PC has managed to pack efficiently or not.

And then, there's the problem that all of the kits assume no low-light or dark vision... since damn near all of them include 10lbs of torches.

When I first saw the Adventurer's Kit in 4e (which probably wasn't the first time they existed, just the first time I saw them), my initial response was "about time". However, I've since concluded that they're actually a bad thing.

Here's the thing: either it matters exactly what the PCs are carrying, or it does not. If it matters, then there's no place for a pre-chosen kit - the PCs are going to have to bypass it to make sure they're choosing exactly the right equipment.

If it doesn't matter exactly what kit the PCs have then there still isn't a place for these kits (and, especially, multiple such kits to choose from) - just charge each PC 30gp and 20lbs, and assume that they have what they need.

Introducing pre-chosen kits introduces a nasty halfway house, where PCs are encouraged to gloss over what equipment they have... right up to the point where the DM asks them if they have some specific item in a life-or-death situation. And that's not a good thing.

Ideally, groups should discuss their expectations up-front - either micromanage equipment or don't. But decide before the PCs are reliant on having just the right item in their bag of holding.

 

[knottyprof]

Suggested Encumbrance changes

The "just the right piece of gear for just the right situation" is a thing that can either be just assumed by the players/DM or something that is micro-managed by both. My biggest hang up with the the whole encumbrance/gear issue is most players (and DMs unless they are very anal retentive) don't give it much thought until they take a serious look at it.

For example, my character has a Strength of 10 which means she is considered moderately encumbered once 33 lbs or so is reached. Since she is a roguish/stalker type she does not want or need to be slowed down and my assumption was that if she was carrying typical gear and wearing light armor and weapons she wouldn't be. I was very wrong once I started adding up the numbers. If you include the weight of armor, clothing, and weapons alone she is at 30 lbs or so which means she can take on about 3 more pounds of stuff before she becomes encumbered to the point of impacting her movement rate. So if I relegate most of my gear to saddle bags and such and just carry the bare essentials, but if it requires a longer trek she has no option but to take on the added weight.

Personally I would consider the weight of clothing being worn as negligible and (depending on the type) armor should be discounted since it is distributed on the body as well. IMO light non-metallic armor should be considered 1/2 as much while worn, while light metal and medium armor about 3/4 and heavy armor it's normal weight (basically walking in a steel suit which adds appreciable weight regardless). Also, I do not understand why masterwork armor doesn't weigh less over all as my guess is that the metals (or other materials) would be more refined and better distrubuted on the body. In this case I would think that light mw armor would probably weigh the same, medium armor about 10% less and heavy armor about 20% less than normal.

 

[Clyde Lee Graham]

Personally I would consider the weight of clothing being worn as negligible and (depending on the type) armor should be discounted since it is distributed on the body as well. IMO light non-metallic armor should be considered 1/2 as much while worn, while light metal and medium armor about 3/4 and heavy armor it's normal weight (basically walking in a steel suit which adds appreciable weight regardless). Also, I do not understand why masterwork armor doesn't weigh less over all as my guess is that the metals (or other materials) would be more refined and better distrubuted on the body. In this case I would think that light mw armor would probably weigh the same, medium armor about 10% less and heavy armor about 20% less than normal.

For what it's worth, as far as I can tell, Pathfinder assumes the clothes you are wearing are weight free.

And as for kits, all I really want since I use Hero Lab, is the ability to select a kit and have it add all of the items to my character sheet. Don't need a discount in price or weight, but I do want an easier way to add it.

 

[N'raac]

First of, at http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k13q?Clothing-weight, the lead designer confirms that the clothes worn have weight, but that the issue may be considered for a later update.

Second, for me at least, I liked the fact that 3e made every stat relevant for everyone. You want to dump CHA? You have a tougher time with social encounters. You dump STR? The weight limits pinch. I have a few characters who carry some junk around in a sack so they can easily drop it. If they're backpacking through the countryside then, yes, they are likely carrying a medium load. But they can easly bring a mule along for cross country travel (whether the four legged 8gp variety, or the local party Warrior I leave to your discretion...).

I don't envision that roguish stalker type hauling along a cooking pot, tent and sleeping bag while engaged in roguish stalking, so the fact that those items would be handled in some other way doesn't really suspend my disbelief.