Unaligned Clerics

[Particle_Man]

There is some handwaving towards worshipping a group of deities.

One way I might rule it is that an Unaligned cleric worships all the good, lawful good and unaligned deities (sort of a pantheist, but excluding the evil and chaotic evil deities, because I am arbitrary like that).

A "solo" cleric focused on one deity would then have to match their deity exactly.

But this is in house rule territory.

 

[zerotkatama]

Fluff-wise, note that for the Cleric (and to a lesser extent the Paladin) their powers don't come straight from the diety, they come from the rituals of ordainment and investiture (and knighting, for the Paladin). It also notes that if a cleric (or paladin) starts acting out of synch with the faith, they recieve censure from their church, and not (directly)from the god.

Of course, this is all fluff, and open to interpretation/change.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Well, I expect a cleric and paladin to uphold the tenet of their faith lest they face censure.

If you can do that and maintain your unaligned status, good for you.

But I'd point out that it's damn hard for a player to advance Gruumsph agenda and claim with a straight face that his PC isn't evil.

Of course, alignment has no mechanical effect whatseover so it doesn't matter. Write whatever you want on your character sheet. Have your cleric of Gruumphsh be unaligned if you wish. Lawful good Paladins of Bahamut will still try to pound him into the ground at the first occasion.

 

[Aldarc]

So I was reading the rules on Clerics and deities. Got an alignment? You have to worship a god with that alignment, sure. Unaligned gods? Any alignment Cleric, again, sure, I can see this. You're Unaligned? Worship any god. That's right. Derive power from Bahamut for being a bit wishy-washy when it comes to upholding justice and honour. He doesn't mind!

I just don't get it. Can anyone help with the roleplaying side of this?

Because the unaligned cleric will still presumably seek to press the agenda of the god that he or she serves.

Also to excerpt from the Unaligned Section:

A few unaligned people, and most unaligned deities, aren’t undecided about alignment. Rather, they’ve chosen not to choose, either because they see the benefits of both good and evil or because they see themselves as above the concerns of morality. The Raven Queen and her devotees fall into the latter camp, believing that moral choices are irrelevant to their mission since death comes to all creatures regardless of alignment.

So it seems, especially with emphasis on the first sentence, that unaligned clerics may serve good gods without being good themselves simply because they see it as being either irrelevant to their mission.

 

[NewfieDave]

To use a real world example...

Just because you go to church every week does not make you a good person. It does make you a member of the church though.

Most real world religions would probably define themselves as Lawful Good or Good organizations, but many people in the pews would be classified as Unaligned. The ratio of regular people to the exceptionally devoted (ie. Ghandi/Mother Theresa) demonstrates this quite well.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

It kinda makes sense to me. For example, a dragonborn might become a cleric of Bahamut because that's who his parents/tribe/culture worships. He loves Bahamut, he loves the church and all its traditions (largely because that's what he grew up with), but maybe he doesn't spend a lot of time worrying about the specific moral tenets of Bahamut.

I don't want to make any specific real-world examples, since those turn nasty quick, but I think we can all think of a few major religions whose foundational religious tracts are full of peace and love, but some of whose clergy like to talk up the bits about hellfire and holy war.

 

[Campbell]

One wrinkle to keep in mind is that gods rarely invest power into Clerics and Paladins directly. Clerics undergo an ordination that grants them the ability to wield divine power. This ordination is usually performed by other clergy, although some might be directly ordained by a deity. Paladins undergo a similar process.

 

[Zogmo]

Have your cleric of Gruumphsh be unaligned if you wish. Lawful good Paladins of Bahamut will still try to pound him into the ground at the first occasion.

Ha, this is good stuff. I'm gonna have to remember this when I'm DMing.
Unaligned clerics being treated as if they were evil by Lawful Good paladins. Good story elements there.

Guilt by association.

 

[Ipissimus]

I think part of the problem is that Unaligned is such a broad heading. An Unaligned Cleric of Bahamut might believe devoutly in law, order and justice to the point where he or she ignores doing good in favor of applying the rule with ruthless efficiency.

On the other hand, a Good aligned character probably has problems with regimentation and restrictions. A Lawful Good church will have a strict hierarchy and require rigid discipline. A Good character would chafe under such strict conditions and particularly balk when the rules prevent them from doing the right thing.

Ironically, the Unaligned character fits into the church better because the clergy believes that rigid discipline and efficient application of rules is the best road towards the greater good for all.

 

[Particle_Man]

Another thought: Maybe the Gods can't tell that an unaligned person is unaligned? They might register on the "Do you match me" meter as a false positive?

No wait that doesn't work because of the more strict Paladin alignment to god rules.

And there are no pantheon rules, just fluff.

Can a cleric worship both Good and Lawful Good gods? If so, must that cleric be unaligned?

Is there a mini-pantheon of the two LG gods for some LG clerics? Similarly for the two G gods for G clerics?