Unbalanced Characters/ToB?

[Darkwolf445]

Just out of curiosity, mainly because I mostly DM (99%), but I joined a local gamestore's Expedition to the Demonweb campaign. 8 others and myself created level 8 characters and showed up for the game. Of the group 7 of us were pretty baseline characters (core or real close to it), while one was a Warblade.

The presence of the Warblade just kind of made the rest of the group feel unnecessary. Every round he was doing some new manuever that overcame DR or did an amazing amount of damage. Hit points were damn near maximum, which put him 50% higher than the half orc fighter and every roll was a 18 or higher, save for the "1" that everyone saw hit the table.

I have not had any of my players use this book.
The DM didn't seem to mind, but I could see other players did (as well as myself).

Is this standard for Book of Nine Swords, or just a bad experience?

(Note, several of us there have years of experience and know how to optimize our characters, but this struck me as a little off.)

 

[shilsen]

I think it's safe to say that hit pts being near maximum and being able to roll an 18 or higher every time is not standard for someone using the Book of Nine Swords

 

[Darkwolf445]

That was my thought as well, but I was really wondering about some of the powers that he used (which I do not remember the names of) and if these characters are really as lethal as they seem or if the player is fudging on everything, or close to it.

 

[Edheldur]

If you're really interested in checking out the powers of the ToB classes, you can download the "Maneuver cards" Web Enhancement from WotC's site HERE.

 

[Sejs]

ToB characters can be lethal depending on how they're used, granted, but from the description.. sounds like you've got a fudger there. Big'un, too.

 

[Mort]

Just out of curiosity, mainly because I mostly DM (99%), but I joined a local gamestore's Expedition to the Demonweb campaign. 8 others and myself created level 8 characters and showed up for the game. Of the group 7 of us were pretty baseline characters (core or real close to it), while one was a Warblade.

The presence of the Warblade just kind of made the rest of the group feel unnecessary. Every round he was doing some new manuever that overcame DR or did an amazing amount of damage. Hit points were damn near maximum, which put him 50% higher than the half orc fighter and every roll was a 18 or higher, save for the "1" that everyone saw hit the table.

I have not had any of my players use this book.
The DM didn't seem to mind, but I could see other players did (as well as myself).

Is this standard for Book of Nine Swords, or just a bad experience?

(Note, several of us there have years of experience and know how to optimize our characters, but this struck me as a little off.)

One of the unfortunate problems with Bo9S maneuvers is they are complicated. This means a "fudger" can get away with an awful lot (such as not counting a maneuver when expended or "recovering" an expended maneuver without taking the proper action to do so).
That said Tob characters can get several maneuvers that overcome damage reduction or do extra damage - BUT most of those take standard actions so no extra attacks.
For example an 8th level warblade may have a maneuver that allows 4d6 extra damage on an attack - but that's the only attack they make. An 8th level fighter with a full attack should equal or exceed that (between damage bonuses power attack, etc.), heck an 8th level rogue can easily do better flanking an enemy or otherwise sneak attacking.

 

[Slife]

ToB characters are more powerful than a vanilla fighter. This does not, however, make them unbalanced.

 

[Darkwolf445]

That said Tob characters can get several maneuvers that overcome damage reduction or do extra damage - BUT most of those take standard actions so no extra attacks.
For example an 8th level warblade may have a maneuver that allows 4d6 extra damage on an attack - but that's the only attack they make. An 8th level fighter with a full attack should equal or exceed that (between damage bonuses power attack, etc.), heck an 8th level rogue can easily do better flanking an enemy or otherwise sneak attacking.

I am pretty sure we were looking at multiple attacks each round where 4 or 6 d6 were being rolled.

 

[Darkwolf445]

ToB characters are more powerful than a vanilla fighter. This does not, however, make them unbalanced.

I was using the fighter as an example of hit point disparity.

We also had an ogre paladin, an 8th level wizard, an 8th level druid, and myself, an 8th level cleric. Just for myself, and I have been schooled by some seriously optimizing cleric players as a DM, even fully buffed I would not have been able to compete with this player's character. That was the primary intent here: Is the class unbalanced, or is the player taking advantage/fudging?

Sorry if that was not clearly stated.

I am the kind of DM who allows pretty much anything, save for the Book of Exalted Deeds (Because I truly hate that book), because I have a group of players that knows the rules and polices itself. This group is not mine, nor do I know the other players.

 

[Particle_Man]

I am pretty sure we were looking at multiple attacks each round where 4 or 6 d6 were being rolled.

Then your fellow player was cheating, pure and simple. Maneuvers almost always take standard actions to use, and you only get one of those per round.