Uncanny Dodge and Feint

[Ranger5]

A question about this has come up in our game recently.

Can a character with Uncanny Dodge be feinted by another character?

The SRD on Uncanny Dodge says (for the rogue):

Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

And the SRD on feinting in combat says:

Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff check opposed by a Sense Motive check by your target. The target may add his base attack bonus to this Sense Motive check. If your Bluff check result exceeds your target’s Sense Motive check result, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

It seems to me that the answer would be no, anyone with Uncanny Dodge cannot be feinted, but others in my group are less sure. What do you all think? Thanks.

 

[FEADIN]

There was a long thread on this question some days ago, the problem seems to be in the word "even" which is inclusive or exclusive, some read it as an example others as a limit.
Feint doesn't render the ennemy invisible and don't make you flat footed so.....

 

[Infiniti2000]

The two ways to read it, take your pick:

1. She loses her Dex bonus in all cases except when flat-footed or struck by an invisible character. (the 'even' clause lists the cases and the next sentence is exemplary)
2. She loses her Dex bonus only when immobilized. (the 'even' clause is exemplary and the next sentence is the only case)

Since I ascribe to #1, I listed that one first naturally. Sorry, dcollins.

 

[irdeggman]

Well I think that uncanny dodge doesn't not prevent a character from the feint action.

My logic is the text surronding the uncanny dodge "reacting to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so". Then the following text talking about flat-footed and invisibility. Both of these conditions are directly related to being "surprised" in the broad sense. There refer to undeteced impending danger.

Fainting is about placing the opponent off balance.

I don't see where the two are really connected except in the effect for a sneak attack and such.


The SRD on Uncanny Dodge says (for the rogue):

Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

And the SRD on feinting in combat says:

Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff check opposed by a Sense Motive check by your target. The target may add his base attack bonus to this Sense Motive check. If your Bluff check result exceeds your target’s Sense Motive check result, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).

 

[Peter Gibbons]

The two ways to read it, take your pick:

1. She loses her Dex bonus in all cases except when flat-footed or struck by an invisible character. (the 'even' clause lists the cases and the next sentence is exemplary)
2. She loses her Dex bonus only when immobilized. (the 'even' clause is exemplary and the next sentence is the only case)

I believe #1 is correct as well.

 

[Shin Okada]

I believe #1 is correct as well.

Me too.

Climbing, running, etc. will still let her loose Dex bonus to AC.

 

[Li Shenron]

The two ways to read it, take your pick:

1. She loses her Dex bonus in all cases except when flat-footed or struck by an invisible character. (the 'even' clause lists the cases and the next sentence is exemplary)
2. She loses her Dex bonus only when immobilized. (the 'even' clause is exemplary and the next sentence is the only case)

Since I ascribe to #1, I listed that one first naturally. Sorry, dcollins.

#1 here too.

We've always read the "immobilized" part as meaning that if you are flat-footed AND immobilized, or struck by an invisible attacker WHILE being immobilized, then Uncanny Dodge doesn't help you anymore.