Unconscious Ranger - What does the Beast do?

[Zoombaba]

I got mixed answers at RPGnet, thought I'd try the more rigorous EnWorld (next stop, Wizards forums).

So ... we just finished a session last tonight. The ranger just re-built her character as a beastmaster. She has a cat.

Couple of questions came up.

1) She fell unconscious and was near death. As I understand it, the beast is suppose to remain adjacent to its master. It can attack, move, etc, as long as it remains adjacent. That's how I ruled it. Does that sound right?

2) How high can a panther vertically jump according to the rules? I ruled that the panther couldn't attack some spiders located on a 15 foot ceiling. That seems reasonable to me.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Mort_Q]

1) Sounds about right... it is stated specifically in the PH2 MP, but I don't have it handy.

2) Officially, panthers don't have reach... so... that's correct. Realistically... I'm sure a panther could easily jump 15 feet.

 

[Griogre]

Page 182 in the PH deals with jumping. Of particular importance is whether the cat can get a running start which if you rule the cat has to strictly stay within 2 spaces of the down PC it can't. However very important is that you get to add the cats height plus 1/3 to it's jump hight for reach purposes. I don't know how big that panther is or what ever was on the ceiling or what the althletics check is of the cat, but if that panther could get up 5 feet or so to 10' high and that's a medium creature on the ceiling it could probably hit. Without a running start unless that is a very large panther it probably has a chance just not a very good one.

 

[fissionessence]

As far as I know, though, there are no rules for a 'jumping attack' that the cat could perform. There might be powers that recreate that situation, but if there panther doesn't have said powers, it's out of luck.

The only thing I could think of is to ready an attack for when you're mid-height in a jump, but you can't take readied actions on your own turn or set up triggers that involve your own actions (IMO).

~

 

[Tremorsense]

1) She fell unconscious and was near death. As I understand it, the beast is suppose to remain adjacent to its master. It can attack, move, etc, as long as it remains adjacent. That's how I ruled it. Does that sound right?

I read page 142 of Martial Power (Beast Companion Independent Actions) to state that once the beast has come to be adjacent to you, it can then go around the battlefield wherever it wants. But I can see how your interpretation would fit as well. I think that for the benefit of the player the beast should be able to leave it's side, otherwise it's just a target that can't fight back.

 

[Zoombaba]

You know that's kind of how I saw it at the time: no leaping power. At the time I was running Deathjump Spiders who have "Death from Above" -- shift 6 squares and knock target prone. I thought the cat should have a similar detail if the cat could do it.

But now that I think about it, that's probably not a good way to run the game. Not every type of attack needs to be codified by an attack power. It probably stifles creativity.

I think the other thing that was bothering me, the player was trying to use panther as "super-power," this new widget that would be capable of solving all the party's problems. At the time I was a bit annoyed. Ranger: "My cat should be able to do this, this and this!" Me: "Um, no, no and no." I think by that time I was just trying to find excuses and get the player off my back, and nerf them a bit, instead of making a fair ruling.

Don't get me wrong -- I think the ranger beastmaster build was pretty cool and kick-ass, but the player seemed to be trying to get so much more out of the build then seemed reasonable.

 

[fissionessence]

Well I think if you wanted to let the panther do a jumping attack, just make sure it's not as powerful as as a special power that allows that option. For example, let the panther make an Athletics check to jump, using the standing high jump rules, and if it can reach the spider it wants to attack, then it takes a -5 penalty for being mid-jump.

I have five cats, and they leap around trying to catch bugs, so I know this technique is possible to attempt . . . but I also know it's not generally successful.

~ fissionessence

 

[Infiniti2000]

A -5 is equivalent to being blind. I think -2 should be used, if a penalty is used at all. I would allow the jump-attack, too, btw. But, using the rules.

 

[fissionessence]

If you only do -2, I'd give the guys opportunity attacks.

~

 

[On Puget Sound]

Can't a jump be part of a charge? If the ceiling is 15' up, then the cat is moving the required 2 squares (vertically) to charge. This particular charge woud require a successful jump check, and would also be followed by a 10' fall (or acrobatics check to reduce the fall damage). I doubt the cat can make a 10' vertical jump check without a running start, but that's the way I would call it.