Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Divine Domains

And, here's the direct link to the PDF

http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_Cleric.pdf

Forge, Grave, and Protection domains...

 

[CapnZapp]

were now faced with the more important question of "How do I make myself valuable to a group that doesn't need me?"

I think you're making much too much out of this.

After all, a Fighter doesn't have any particular unique abilities, and still is a very appreciated member of the team.

The Cleric is fine even if healing is not strictly mandatory.

The point is: don't go "I'm pointless if you could just replace me with a Bard or Ranger".

The fact no single party member isn't replacable is supposed to be a good thing, since you no longer need any particular kind of party member.

You do still need party members, however. Even if the party would survive on that Bard or Ranger, if you like to play a Cleric, you can and should still do so!

The only thing lost here is the sense that in a party of equals the Cleric is more equal than the rest. And good riddance if you ask me

 

[CapnZapp]

Channel Divinity (Radiant Defense): Now we run into our first glaring problem. I don't like the idea that the character needs to get hit for this ability to be effective. Ideally, a Protection cleric would want the character to avoid getting hit entirely. But the full effectiveness of this ability suggests that the character should get hit for damage, which seems thematically off-base. This ability would probably be more appropriate for a Justice/Retribution domain than a Protection cleric. (Even then, I don't like that sort of design philosophy.) It's easier, however, to recognize a problem than to propose a solution, and this is where I am having difficulty.

This is actually important.

In a game where damage disrupts your important buffs and debuffs, getting hit is a bad strategy.

I'm not saying you can't create a character build that depends on getting hit / taking damage. I'm saying everything about that character must be carefully calibrated to support that notion. Such a character could for instance have no concentration spells. Even better, it could be an exception to the usual concentration rules. (I don't know a Blood mage that can void Concentration for a very small selection of spells).

What you can't do however, is just slap an ability that fires on taking damage onto a chassi (the Cleric) that otherwise have little to gain and lots to lose by being hit or taking damage.

WotC should probably save such abilities for an entirely new class where the assumption of taking damage is built into the class from the ground up.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

This is actually important.

In a game where damage disrupts your important buffs and debuffs, getting hit is a bad strategy.

I'm not saying you can't create a character build that depends on getting hit / taking damage. I'm saying everything about that character must be carefully calibrated to support that notion. Such a character could for instance have no concentration spells. Even better, it could be an exception to the usual concentration rules. (I don't know a Blood mage that can void Concentration for a very small selection of spells).

What you can't do however, is just slap an ability that fires on taking damage onto a chassi (the Cleric) that otherwise have little to gain and lots to lose by being hit or taking damage.

WotC should probably save such abilities for an entirely new class where the assumption of taking damage is built into the class from the ground up.

Seems like a really good ability to use on the party's barbarian, since I am pretty sure that getting hit is important to their primary ability. Almost as good on any other front liner. Of course, if you are the kind of player who only let's his/her PC self-buff, then this domain is probably not for you.

 

[Aldarc]

Seems like a really good ability to use on the party's barbarian, since I am pretty sure that getting hit is important to their primary ability. Almost as good on any other front liner. Of course, if you are the kind of player who only let's his/her PC self-buff, then this domain is probably not for you.

Except even frontliners, barbarians excluded, still aim to avoid getting hit as a form of damage mitigation.

 

[Edwin Suijkerbuijk]

Personaly I think they went pretty safe with the domains.

at the moment we have 2 basic types.
Bonus cantrip + Potent spellcasting and Heavy armor + Divine strike.

I hoped they might have tried maybe coming up with a new base type.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Protection -- I'd rather eat nails than play a cleric still more focused on helping other people. "Dear Wizards, my cleric is too exciting. Please strip away some abilities I can use to just do cool stuff, and replace them with ways I can help the rest of the party shine instead!" -- signed, nobody.

Support is a legit function, and some of us do enjoy it. Maybe not to the degree of a dedicated heal-bot (though I've seen people enjoy Pacifist Clerics), maybe not when restricted to the Cleric class/concepts in order to do it well... but it's not nobody.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Except even frontliners, barbarians excluded, still aim to avoid getting hit as a form of damage mitigation.

It seems like the best way to get that kind of damage mitigation is for the fighter to hide behind the wizard. I think it is more of a "I am going out to fight the frost giant, and the odds are pretty good that it is going to get at least 1 hit in" thing, which is probably why fighters get things like second wind, and clerics have healing spells.......


Now in stealth-heavy parties, the odds are that this would never get any use (and since you get all radiant, probably should never get any use), but a protection domain cleric is probably not the best fit for a stealth-heavy party.

 

[Mercule]

Support is a legit function, and some of us do enjoy it. Maybe not to the degree of a dedicated heal-bot (though I've seen people enjoy Pacifist Clerics), maybe not when restricted to the Cleric class/concepts in order to do it well... but it's not nobody.

Agreed. Even though my group's Cleric is crazy-tanky, he sucks at dealing damage (how comical is full plate, a shield, heavy armor mastery, and... a sickle?). His main focus is in keeping others alive, whether by healing or taking a bullet. I don't understand it, but he enjoys that type of character and has for the 20 years I've known him.

 

[SailorNash]

I really want to like Forge, but he doesn't actually forge anything? He buys mundane gear from his god, or barters with equivalent goods. He should have artisan tools, and the ability to actually create things with his own two hands (more so than just blessing existing items or swapping for new ones).

 

[Aldarc]

Part 2 of 3 of my UA cleric subclass reviews. You can find Part 1 (Protection) here.

Forge

The gods of the forge are patrons of artisans who work with metal, from a humble blacksmith who keeps a village in horseshoes and plow blades to the mighty elf artisan whose diamond-tipped arrows of mithral have felled demon lords. The gods of the forge teach that, with patience and hard work, even the most intractable metal can transform from a lump of ore to a beautifully wrought object. Clerics of these deities quest to search for objects lost to the forces of darkness, liberate mines overrun by orcs, and uncover rare and wondrous materials necessary to create potent magic items. Followers of these gods take great pride in their work, and they are willing to craft and use heavy armor and powerful weapons to protect them. Deities of this domain include Gond, Reorx, Onatar, Moradin, Hephaestus, and Goibhniu.

The bold represents the central idea of the Forge cleric. So this will, in part, serve as a metric for how the abilities reflect this text.

Domain Spells: The Forge domain has a solid, at least expected, set of domain spells. I will echo a few others in this thread by suggesting that Shield should probably be replaced with Identify, especially if these clerics are also searching for "objects lost" or "rare and wondrous materials." I suspect these clerics may want to be able to Identify things.

Bonus Proficiency: The above flavor text says that Forge clerics "use heavy armor and powerful weapons to protect them," but in our bonus proficiency here, we see that they gain Heavy Armor Proficiency, but not necessarily Martial Weapon Proficiency. Is this an oversight? Or perhaps does the "powerful weapons" refer to the magical imbue in Blessing of the Forge? It's definitely something I will be mentioning in my feedback.

The other most glaring oversight, as has been pointed out on repeated occasions, is that the Forge cleric lacks a bonus proficiency in a set of crafting tools. It's possible that the designers assumed that this would mostly be a Dwarf domain, but even then, I would assume that a dwarven cleric of the Forge would also have a bit more enthusiasm for crafting than the typical adventuring dwarf. It would also be nice, again to reflect divine favor on a minor point, if the Forge cleric had Expertise (see Bard, Rogue) in a set of crafting tools. But it's not entirely clear whether this should be a part of the Bonus Proficiency above or the next ability of sorts.

Blessing of the Forge: You create temporary magic weapons or armor. That's perhaps a little too useful as written, and at first level (i.e. a common cleric dip level). I like the basic idea here, but I would follow others in making Blessing of the Forge the Channel Divinity ability and moving Artisan's Blessing to 1st level. The new Channel Divinity version of Blessing of the Forge could possibly then be reduced to a shorter duration (e.g. 1 hour, 10 minutes, or 1 minute) with possibly a scaling bonus (half proficiency bonus?). It may see a bit more varied application that way as well.

Channel Divinity (Artisan's Blessing): It's flavorful, but I think there are better ways to do this. A lot of the discussion around this tends to focus on the GP limit and its usefulness in making forgeries, which seems somewhat counterintuitive to the spirit of the class: creation, innovation, and industry. As I said, this probably should not be the Channel Divinity ability, but moved down to the level 1 ability. It may be easier if Artisan's Blessing just granted the Mending cantrip (perhaps with expanded powers, as per the Illusionist with Minor Illusion or Arcane Trickster with Mage Hand) plus Expertise in a set of crafting tools. Or something. I don't know.

Soul of the Forge: Soul of the Forge is definitely nice. You essentially get Defensive fighting style, fire resistance (which gets replaced later with full immunity), and a flavorful bonus damage to constructs. Practical for a priestly-smith in the divine forge.

Divine Strike: Again, solid. This is definitely a more melee-oriented domain, and pounding foes with a fiery weapon fits incredibly well with the aesthetic of the Forge cleric.

Saint of Forge and Fire: Beautiful. Fire immunity, plus non-magical weapon resistance when wearing your armor? It evokes the idea of the invincible armor crafted by the gods. That is truly an ability appropriate for the priests of Moradin, Hephaestus, or Onatar.

Overall: The Forge cleric has a solid chassis. The abilities (mostly) work well for the spirit of the domain. It's problems are mostly front-loaded, with a few minor oversights and a few abilities that should probably be swapped and subsequently modified. The biggest oversight is perhaps the one most easily fixed: the Forge cleric who is "willing to craft" is not given the basic proficiencies to do so.