Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Mass Combat

http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/2017_UAMassCombat_MCUA_v1.pdf

I wasn't expecting an article today...looks like a rehash of the old Mass Combat rules.

I was really hoping for the Mystic....

Pretty radically different from the previous attempt, much more abstract and fast paced; which is good, because it has been gestating for two years!
[MENTION=697]mearls[/MENTION] has been talking up various DM options in the works; looks like those will get the exposure for a little bit, now.

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[FitzTheRuke]

I'm sure I'm being influenced by wargames like Dominions, where crushing an enemy force with 100% casualties is something which essentially doesn't happen, and where low-morale troops will often rout after only a few blows are exchanged (10% casualties or so). To me, having a unit potentially lose cohesion after "only" ten minutes of fighting seems about right. (Note: a disbanded unit doesn't mean everyone in it is dead, and it could potentially be re-formed with the survivors. But it ceases to be a factor in the ongoing battle.)

I don't like the idea of fighting until BR is zeroed out. That doesn't seem realistic to me. It is a rare combat formation which will be able to fight on after taking 50% casualties.

One thing that I might consider is altering the penalty for failing a morale check. Thinking about Gettysburg (the movie) and the way the various units repulse and are reformed several times, I might consider a variant where morale failures are more like PHB Exhaustion: perhaps a morale failure simply incapacitates the combat formation in confusion until it succeeds on a morale check (can't initiate actions, including Fights; can't move as a formation; etc.), and disbanding is caused by failing three morale checks in a row. But so far those kinds of ideas are just in my head, not written down in usable form anywhere and certainly not tested.

You misunderstand my intent. How would a Morale Save prevent casualties? BR would not represent only casualties the way HP aren't only wounds. Or in other words a zero BR army would be a routed army just as much as it would be a "crushed" one. (Whichever makes sense to the story.

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[FormerlyHemlock]

You misunderstand my intent. How would a Morale Save prevent casualties? BR would not represent only casualties the way HP aren't only wounds. Or in other words a zero BR army would be a routed army just as much as it would be a "crushed" one. (Whichever makes sense to the story.)

So what does a reduced BR represent then? A partially routed army where lots of creatures have deserted? I have trouble believing that such a unit would not disintegrate completely.

I also don't like the idea of fighting all the way to zero BR, no matter what you think that represents. Doesn't match my intuition of how battles should work and the importance of morale; and seems like it could be very grindy.

Not to my taste. YMMV.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

So what does a reduced BR represent then? A partially routed army where lots of creatures have deserted? I have trouble believing that such a unit would not disintegrate completely.

I also don't like the idea of fighting all the way to zero BR, no matter what you think that represents. Doesn't match my intuition of how battles should work and the importance of morale; and seems like it could be very grindy.

Not to my taste. YMMV.

You might be right. I've not tried it. I'm just not sure I like save-or-die after 10 mins of combat and made a suggestion, just to see what you thought.

What about a morale save failure working something like the frightened condition? The unit disengages and moves away? Something like that? I think the crux of my problem lies in whole units disappearing from the field after one bad roll.

I just want to know what you think. If my input is not at all helpful to your thought-proccess I'll shut up.

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[FormerlyHemlock]

You might be right. I've not tried it. I'm just not sure I like save-or-die after 10 mins of combat and made a suggestion, just to see what you thought.

What about a morale save failure working something like the frightened condition? The unit disengages and moves away? Something like that? I think the crux of my problem lies in whole units disappearing from the field after one bad roll.

I just want to know what you think. If my input is not at all helpful to your thought-proccess I'll shut up.

No worries. I'm also not completely happy with the idea of a unit completely disappearing after one bad roll. It seems a little bit too harsh. I mentioned Gettysburg, and the idea of a unit regrouping and regaining cohesion for another attack after passing a subsequent morale check--in between the unit is incapacitated and can take no actions (as a group at least), or perhaps it can move only to flee.

The key reason why mass combat is different from individual combat is the old saying, "a rational army would run away." If I'm an orc in an army of 1000 orcs, my individual contribution to the battle is basically nil--999 orcs can fight about as well as 1000 orcs, but if I hang back and let them do the fighting, my chances of living through the battle approach 100%. But if everyorc does that, we lose, and most casualties are inflicted after a rout (once the unit loses cohesion), so if everyorc does the "rational" thing to stay alive, we all die. Somehow the commander needs to ensure that everybody does the irrational thing of attacking, and they need to do it all at the same time and in the same direction against the same enemy. (That's one reason you shoot deserters.) The need for coordination is also responsible for the longer 10-minute time frame I envision.

Once you lose cohesion, you no longer have an army, you just have a bunch of individuals who are easily cut down at 10:1 odds by attackers because the other 9 in 10 guys on your side are doing "every man for himself" and won't reinforce you.

So, I want rules that make morale important, but I think you are right that a single roll to disband a unit permanently (for the rest of the battle) is too much. I'll probably iterate on this over the next few months.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Maybe a failed Morale check results in a dropping one or two places down the morale track with "Routed - must disengage and move away" and "Disbanded - remove from play" down at the bottom of the track. That way a "Fanatical" unit will fight until it's demoralized ir destroyed but an "unsteady" unit will rout the first time it loses a skirmish?

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