D&D 3E/3.5 unfamiliar with 3E, can someone recommend a class/build?

loki8481

First Post
well, it's a long ways from where I originally started, but i think I finally decided on a fighter/rogue/lasher (from Sword and Fist, pending DM approval)

fighter 2 -> rogue 3 -> lasher 5 -> fighter 4 -> rogue 11, ending up as 11/5/4 (rogue/lasher/fighter)

anyone see any major glaring problems with that setup? I was kinda leaning halfling, but the more I think about it the more I wonder if i shouldn't just go human for the extra feat since I'd have to lose a feat right away for exotic weapon proficiency.
 

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StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer
Bard's actually a nice way to get to Lasher, since it can give you whip proficiency for free. Bard also gives a small modicum of spellcasting, though definitely not the blasting kind. If you do take some bard levels, I highly reccomend using Use Magic Device and keeping a good stock of wands of utility spells, maybe even some scrolls, though the DC is higher for those.

Also, remember that while you're free to multiclass as you like, you face xp penalties if any two classes, other than prestige classes and your race's favored class (which effectively don't come into consideration), become more than one level apart. Which, for the progression you want, means that to go straight rogue at the end means you'd need to be a human, half-elf, or halfling. Since half-elves suck beyond redemption, you made a fine choice narrowing it down to human or halfling. :)
 

Arkhandus

First Post
Actually, no Waterball through Energy Admixture or Energy Substitution. It'd have to be an Acidball or Coldball at best, because Water isn't an energy type, let alone one of those allowed by those two feats.

Masters of the Wild has an optional rule to let folks increase their animal companions' Hit Dice through a ritual that costs some XP and stuff, but it doesn't give them all the boosts that 3.5 animal companions get; they're just normal animals (and you could have lots of them with fewer individual HD), that you might use a ritual to advance along its natural hit die progression with normal animal HD-based benefits from those like any other animal. And I don't think the DM would allow a 3.5 supplement like PHB 2 in a 3.0 game, but who knows? Also, note that 3.0 druids cannot cast spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally spells.

Clerics can be brutal fighting machines. The 4th-level cleric spell (also on the War Domain, and the Hero Domain as well for Shamans) Divine Power gives the cleric a fighter's BAB and HP for a while, and Righteous Might (also on the same spell lists, along with the Strength Domain list and the Water Shugenja spell list), a 5th-level spell, makes the cleric one size larger and gives them higher Strength for a while. Clerics have Searing Light and Flame Strike on their spell list, of course, which are good for blasting. With the Water and War domains, they'd have a bit more ranged-damage spellcasting.

Shamans get Ancestral Vengeance instead of Searing Light, but a Shaman with the Hero or War domain, and the River or Fury domain, would fit well enough. Unfortunately, Shamans get fewer proficiencies than Clerics, but that does mean they would benefit more from a dip into 1, 2, or 4 levels of Fighter (preferably 1 or 2, since 4 would cut into your spellcasting a lot).

A fighter 1/sorcerer (or wizard) 9/Spellsword 10 would cast spells as per a 14th-level sorcerer or wizard (7th-level spells, like Mordenkainen's Sword, Prismatic Spray, Finger of Death, Bigby's Grasping Hand, and Delayed Blast Fireball), while being slightly less tough than a cleric. The only supplement this requires is Tome & Blood. If going Wizard, it should be an Evoker for blasting, or Transmuter for buffing. Also, note that the 6th-level Transmutation spell Tenser's Transformation can make you a tougher, more effective warrior, though it prevents you from casting spells while it is active. And Stoneskin is still effective in 3.0, though slightly less than in 3.5 I think (at least at high levels) and much weaker than in 2nd Edition AD&D (in which it was awesome). But on the other hand, Protection from Arrows is better in 3.0 than it is in 3.5.

I own all WotC 3.0 books (not PDFs) except for a few of the FR books (basically the regional ones), Book of Vile Darkness (IIRC it came out at the end of 3.0, and I oppose its use of "vile" content on moral grounds), and Enemies & Allies because it would be useless to me. Mystic Theurge is not in 3.0. Period. Fact. Nor is Eldritch Knight, Horizon Walker, or Thaumaturgist. Horizon Walker was loosely based on the King/Queen of the Wild from Masters of the Wild. Thaumaturgist may have some small resemblance to the Incantrix from Magic of Faerun. Eldritch Knight is a lame substitute for the Spellsword from Tome & Blood. Mystic Theurge is a lame substitute for the Geomancer from Masters of the Wild.

A fixed Spellsword, fixed Geomancer, and so on could have been used in core 3.5 rather than the utterly flavorless "prestige" classes they threw in. Or they could have just fixed multiclassing (gasp! shock!) and/or put in a few simple feats to handle that, rather than pointlessly changing so many feats and spells and other things that weren't broken in the first place. Not to say 3.5 didn't fix a few things, but honestly, most of it was wasted effort that changed or broke things that were fine or at least acceptable in 3.0 (like druids, who were strong in 3.0 but not nearly as broken as 3.5 made them, especially by including Natural Spell in the core when it had previously been one of the more-broken supplemental options in Masters of the Wild, pretty much the most-poorly-vetted supplement before 3.5). Instead, things like Practiced Caster and such didn't come out until later supplements.
 

loki8481

First Post
so, it's been an even longer road, but just in case anyone was curious, I *finally* finally decided on what to play... rogue/wizard/arcane trickster :)

long way away from where I originally started, but I'm digging the concept. the party already has a cleric and paladin, so I was feeling like we were already divine'd out and we've already got a sorcerer, so I wanted to take a little bit of a different approach to arcane casting.
 

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer
...Masters of the Wild, pretty much the most-poorly-vetted supplement before 3.5). Instead, things like Practiced Caster and such didn't come out until later supplements.

Wait, really?
Sword and Fist had the Knockdown feat, Tiger Leap sandals, and that weapon with the 17-20 crit range typo.
Song and Silence had Ninja of the Crescent Moon.
Defends of the Faith had haste armor!
Masters of the Wild always seemed like one of the most balanced supplements to me.

On the other hand, I think Druids need Natural Spell, otherwise their two major class features (wildshape and spell casting) are completely and utterly incompatible. Kind of like how the monk's two big class features (moving fast and full attacking for a lot of damage) aren't compatible, except WotC printed a fix for the former. The latter has to be left to houserules... If you don't see that sort of thing as a problem, obviously you'd view the feat differently. I wouldn't mind it if it were a +0 metamagic feat level adjustment, so the player had to choose beforehand what he can cast in and out of wildshape.

so, it's been an even longer road, but just in case anyone was curious, I *finally* finally decided on what to play... rogue/wizard/arcane trickster :)

long way away from where I originally started, but I'm digging the concept. the party already has a cleric and paladin, so I was feeling like we were already divine'd out and we've already got a sorcerer, so I wanted to take a little bit of a different approach to arcane casting.

Awesome! Let us know how it goes. I don't know if 3.0 had clearly printed rules about how weapon-like spells work (I normally reference the 3.5 complete Arcane), but you should be able to do nasty things with your ranged/melee touch spells and sneak attack dice. Like using ray of frost, a cantrip, to turn all your SA damage into cold damage, which means it does extra against things like red dragons...

Another nice synergy I'm not sure applies in 3.0 is that creatures balancing lose dex to AC. So, grease them up, and then get free sneak attacks!
 

kitsune9

Adventurer
I'm a life-long AD&D'er (in fact, the longest campaign I ever played in was a 1st Edition campaign that I played in from 1999 - 2004), but one of my friends is starting up a 3rd edition (3.0, not 3.5) campaign in a couple weeks and my dice bag is calling my name. I haven't played since moving away from that 1E campaign.

I'm trying to come up with a class/build (or some combination of classes) that might help mimic my old 1E character, a multi-class fighter/cleric who was more or less a ranged nuker* who could shrug off a couple hits and dish out some melee damage if I had to.

*my cleric worshiped the god of the oceans and my DM let me have access to any mage/druid spell that had anything to do with water or ice in addition to the normal cleric spells, so I had fun things like a boiling water version of fireball, cone of ice, etc

so with that in mind, any suggestions? we're primarily running out of the core rulebooks, but I could petition my DM to allow something from supplemental materiel on a case by case basis (subject to his review on whether he thinks it's not overpowered and blends in with his campaign world that I know nothing about)

I was actually thinking a little bit about a druid, but they seem so situational, like they might be really limited in an in-doors dungeon crawl (especially the animal companion if I don't have something I can physically carry or that can fly)

edit: for what it's worth... I don't know what anyone else in the group is playing (and won't till game night), except one friend who I know for certain is going to be playing a cleric to be a healer.

In 3.0, take 2 levels of fighter for the fighter bonus feats and then have cleric levels all the rest of the way. For spells that you want to change elements of, you'll need the feat Energy Substitution from (Tome and Blood?) You can choose any energy spell and then substitute it's energy for ice, acid, etc. or work with your DM for some other thematic. The cool thing is that it doesn't boost up your spell levels.
 

FEADIN

Explorer
well, it's a long ways from where I originally started, but i think I finally decided on a fighter/rogue/lasher (from Sword and Fist, pending DM approval)

fighter 2 -> rogue 3 -> lasher 5 -> fighter 4 -> rogue 11, ending up as 11/5/4 (rogue/lasher/fighter)

anyone see any major glaring problems with that setup? I was kinda leaning halfling, but the more I think about it the more I wonder if i shouldn't just go human for the extra feat since I'd have to lose a feat right away for exotic weapon proficiency.

If it's the starting build it's a 20th level character, in 3.x the multiclassing does'nt work like in 1ed.

Halflings use smaller weapons, they do less damage.
 

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