Unhappy about the VT Announcement.

[Kzach]

What I can't understand is why Wizards doesn't engage a third party or two for these tools. Several tools are out there, some of which are very good. If they had a deal with Wizards, or they simply bought the program from them, we could end up with an awesome tool.

Yah, because it's worked so well in the past for them.

I think what WotC need to do is give up on the entire idea of digital content because they're obviously too clueless and inept to handle it either themselves or through a third party.

The Character Builder sucked. And then they made it worse. The Monster Builder sucked. And then they abandoned it altogether. GleeMax sucked. And then we got a half-arsed version of it.

I could go on. There isn't a single 'digital' thing that they've done that I would give a passing grade to; everything has been botched, half-arsed, or badly designed and implemented.

Stick to books, WotC, then I might start buying your products again.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Oh, good grief, all of those tools have been hugely useful to the vast majority of people using DDI. If they all sucked so bad then how come they are so popular? No matter how good you make a tool someone will find something to complain about. Of course there are known deficiencies but the point is if people CAN use a tool and get value out of it would you NOT release it? Also they have steadily improved these tools from day one. All of them have improved, and all of them are useful.

It is up to you to decide what YOU want to pay for. Maybe a tool isn't what YOU want, but saying it is worthless and sucks when I don't find it so kinda suggests that is not applicable to all of us. Pointing out things that can be improved is good for everyone, but "it sucks" doesn't really help.

 

[Kzach]

It is up to you to decide what YOU want to pay for. Maybe a tool isn't what YOU want, but saying it is worthless and sucks when I don't find it so kinda suggests that is not applicable to all of us. Pointing out things that can be improved is good for everyone, but "it sucks" doesn't really help.

The only thing that proves is that you have (significantly) lower standards than I do.

If people followed my example, then we wouldn't live in a world of buggy, half-arsed, barely out of alpha software, or poorly designed and implemented websites, or Microsoft.

I like my world better.

 

[Imaro]

Oh, good grief, all of those tools have been hugely useful to the vast majority of people using DDI. If they all sucked so bad then how come they are so popular? No matter how good you make a tool someone will find something to complain about. Of course there are known deficiencies but the point is if people CAN use a tool and get value out of it would you NOT release it? Also they have steadily improved these tools from day one. All of them have improved, and all of them are useful.

It is up to you to decide what YOU want to pay for. Maybe a tool isn't what YOU want, but saying it is worthless and sucks when I don't find it so kinda suggests that is not applicable to all of us. Pointing out things that can be improved is good for everyone, but "it sucks" doesn't really help.

Emphasis mine... perhaps because they are the only computer tools legally available (Unless you are willing to build your own.). I mean really, what alternatives are there for 4e players?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The only thing that proves is that you have (significantly) lower standards than I do.

If people followed my example, then we wouldn't live in a world of buggy, half-arsed, barely out of alpha software, or poorly designed and implemented websites, or Microsoft.

I like my world better.

This isn't about ME, this is between you and WotC as to what YOU think you want and what YOU think you want to pay for it. WotC offers a product/service and they offer it at a price. Pay it or not!

My 'standards' are mine. I and many other people have chosen to buy what WotC sells and WE have benefit from that. It isn't an arguable point, perceived value is a personal choice. You can think anything you want of other people's choices but frankly it isn't any of your business what I think or do or what ANYONE else thinks or does. The FACT is that CB, MB, Compendium, and the other DDI resources HAVE made my DMing job a lot easier and more enjoyable and benefited my players.

Do we all want more and better stuff for our money? Sure, who doesn't? Is there some maximum amount we're all going to pay for what we are getting? Yup! If the service goes downhill might that be less than what we're paying now? Yup! What that point is is between each one of us and WotC. Calling me an idiot because YOU aren't happy with what YOU are paying? Silly at the very best, pointless for sure.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Emphasis mine... perhaps because they are the only computer tools legally available (Unless you are willing to build your own.). I mean really, what alternatives are there for 4e players?

Well, what is it you are saying, that the content of WotC's books should just be 'free game' and everyone who feels like compiling a CB with all that stuff in it is free to do so? I think in some perfect world everything would be Open, but it isn't such a world, so yeah, I can't just go out and make a CB. Actually I CAN but you'll have to figure out how to add all the required data to it. 4e is NO DIFFERENT from any other game in this regard unless said game is being released under something like OGL. Even in the case of Pathfinder you'd have the exact same issues with any content that Paizo created themselves and wasn't copied from the SRD for d20/3.5.

There ARE also quite a few tools that aren't written by WotC. None of them does what CB does, except MAYBE Hero Labs and oddly enough that isn't free either. There are tons of things like macro frameworks, interactive character sheets, files full of NPCs, Master Plan, power card set printing utilities (it will even suck the powers out of Compendium and print the ones you want cards for if you have a DDI sub). There is iplay4e, etc.

Now, I'd love to see WotC declare that they condone all such tools, but since frankly their tools are about as good as anything I've ever seen for ANY game I really am skeptical that it will make a vast difference in quality.

The only valid question is do you feel like the price they charge is worth it to you? Only you can answer that.

 

[darkwing]

Less than half on none-subscribers were interested. Behind virtual everything else they could have offered.

When I say "new generation of players" I meant people who don't currently play D&D and wouldn't have seen the survey in the first place. The VT is the only tool of the set that has the potential to bring in fresh blood. The next closest is the Character Builder which helps newbies build their characters. The rest all cater to people already playing D&D.

 

[Colmarr]

Ok, maybe I'm dense but I can't find any sign of this 'announcement' on the WotC site. Where exactly is it?

Edit: Never mind. Found it. And my-oh-my does it look awfully like Maptool... Still, a VTT could do a lot worse than replicate Maptool, especially if it auto-fills the monster information (one of the more time-consuming aspect of using Maptool).

 

[Felon]

The only thing that proves is that you have (significantly) lower standards than I do.

If people followed my example, then we wouldn't live in a world of buggy, half-arsed, barely out of alpha software, or poorly designed and implemented websites, or Microsoft.

I like my world better.

Sorry, friend, but at the moment, your example is just being snarky and condescending about other people's efforts. Not sure why you seem self-congratulatory about that.

 

[Kzach]

Sorry, friend, but at the moment, your example is just being snarky and condescending about other people's efforts. Not sure why you seem self-congratulatory about that.

Really.

How many examples of software releases in the world can you cite that are bug free? Do you believe for even a femtosecond that bugs in software are inevitable? Or do you understand that bugs are simply a cost effective drawback that companies don't iron out because they've created a market condition where consumers will tolerate them?

I have an extremely low tolerance for buggy software and poor website design and implementation. The only reason for it is laziness and incompetence. Companies have somehow duped the public into believing and accepting this status quo, when in fact the reality is that a bug-free application isn't impossible, it's just far more expensive to produce and becomes less cost effective to iron out the bugs than it is to simply lose 0.1% of sales because of people like me.

If people weren't so tolerant of buggy, crappy, amateur-hour efforts, then do you really think that companies would attempt to force such product down our throats? If people didn't buy this stuff, companies would make more of an effort and we'd live in a far less buggy world.

But we don't and so we get things like the Character Builder, Monster Builder, GleeMax and now this weak-sauce VTT. Vote with your wallet by not giving WotC money and you can bet they'll either quit producing low-quality digital content altogether, or they'll up their game and actually make the effort to produce something worth paying for.