Unhappy w/4E monster manual..3PP pls. publish monster books pronto!!

[ProfessorCirno]

Yea, but Shemmy, no offense meant, according to your many posts, you think 4e in general is an epic fail. So how can you objectively look at the 4e MM, which is well designed and awesome for 4e DMs, as a success, if you look at the purpose of the monster manual as something other than what it is.

It's not meant to be a generic system-neutral Monster book. That is what ecology articles and the DDI will be for.

Now, would I have liked a little more flavor text? Sure. But I can derive a the flavor text I need just from what I know about the monster, its lore and it's abilities.

Really, not meant to offend, but your opinions about the book don't carry the kind of weight as if you were reviewing a Planescape MM.

Of course, numerous people here who are strong 4e fans have also readily stated that the MM is very weak, so...?

 

[Blair Goatsblood]

I am befuddled why the put both two similar armored tail-swinging dinosaurs with close levels (ankylosaur (7) and stegosaur (9)) instead of including a tyrannosaurus or velociraptor type dino.

When I think of D&D adventurers fighting dinosaurs, anklyosaurs/stegos are not what spring to mind. It just strikes me as a weird decision on WOTC's part.

No t-rex but two armored tail-swinging dinos? With levels that are within slapping distance of each other?

That is good design? Good value for my $$$?

 

[Scribble]

Of course, numerous people here who are strong 4e fans have also readily stated that the MM is very weak, so...?

So their critique of the 4e MM would hold more weight to a 4e player then the critique of someone who does not enjoy 4e as a whole.

 

[Simon Atavax]

No t-rex but two armored tail-swinging dinos? With levels that are within slapping distance of each other?

That is good design? Good value for my $$$?

If "totally arbitrary" is good design, then yes, it's good design.

 

[Blair Goatsblood]

If "totally arbitrary" is good design, then yes, it's good design.

My frustration with the 4th edition MM is due to several factors:

Weird Arbitrary Design Decisions (Ankylosaur & Stegosaur??) +
Lack of Real-Word/Prehistoric/Giant Animals +
Weird Lightning Shooting Scorpions, etc instead of classic versions +
Lack of Many Classic Staple D&D Monsters +
New Weird "Poochy" Monsters (Swordwings, etc) +
= Burning Desire to purchase Tome of Horrors 4E

EDIT: And I love DMing & Playing 4E.

 

[cangrejoide]

More real world?

Have you seen what one boar can do to a person? Forget orcs, an enraged boar that's half your height and twice your weight is horrifyingly scary, especially when you consider they've got armor in the head specifically to make sure you can't hurt it when it tries to gore you. And when you do hurt it, it doesn't back away, it just gets more pissed off.

People who talk about how fighting, say, bears, isn't scary, have never seen a bear. Those suckers hit nine hundred pounds, EASY. Nine hundred pounds! Those aren't even the biggest ones! They can bite through your skull and snap your neck with a paw.

And these are the normal, everyday, mundane Earth ones...

Hmm ...dunno, but after figthing Chimeras, Wyverns, Medusae and Ilithids having a boar/bear kick the crap out of your character can be seen as anti climatic and may actually just provoke accusations of 'Grudge monsters'.

Now if you make that Boar into a hellish offspring mounted by a goblin warlord, now that's a nice encounter. XD

 

[cangrejoide]

Fortunately, the DMG now contains a very solid toolkit for monster homebrewing, making the process relatively quick and easy. And I like homebrewing, so I don't mind for the most part. Even so, a third-party monster book would definitely get my attention.

This.

 

[cangrejoide]

Huge wall of text snipped

Heheh, if only I could sig you.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Hmm ...dunno, but after figthing Chimeras, Wyverns, Medusae and Ilithids having a boar/bear kick the crap out of your character can be seen as anti climatic and may actually just provoke accusations of 'Grudge monsters'.

Now if you make that Boar into a hellish offspring mounted by a goblin warlord, now that's a nice encounter. XD

You're fighting medusae, Illithids, Wyverns, and Chimeras at low levels?

The idea that boars and bears aren't scary is a relatively new idea. Poachers went after pheasants, not boars ;p.

 

[cangrejoide]

You're fighting medusae, Illithids, Wyverns, and Chimeras at low levels?

The idea that boars and bears aren't scary is a relatively new idea. Poachers went after pheasants, not boars ;p.

You can fight tons of nasty stuff at low levels too.

Fire Beetle Level 1 Brute
Stormclaw Scorpion Level 1 Soldier
Spiretop Drake Level 1 Skirmisher

Needlefang Drake Swarm Level 2 Soldier
Guard Drake Level 2 Brute

Spitting Drake Level 3 Artillery
Imp (Devil) Level 3 Lurker
Zombie Rotter Level 3 Minion
Doppelganger Sneak Level 3 Skirmisher
Iron Defender (Homunculus) Level 3 Soldier
Skeleton Level 3 Soldier

Corruption Corpse (Zombie) Level 4 Artillery
Magma Hurler (Magma Beast) Level 4 Artillery
Magma Claw (Magma Beast) Level 4 Brute
Deathlock Wight Level 4 Controller
Specter Level 4 Lurker
Young Black Dragon Level 4 Solo Lurker
Phantom Warrior Level 4 Soldier

Plus you can de-level existing higher level monsters.

I can imagine the meeting back at the adventurers guild:
Arion- " So there we were facing Abraxis the Black Dragon in his lair when all...wait a sec; Hey Ragdar what happened to you?"
Ragdar" A damn wild boar beat me senseless..."
Arion "LOL".


And for the record I never said boars aren't scary. But relative to the other dangers the heroes meet a wild boar seems rather tame if not lame.

But if you have your players fighting house cats and rabid dogs I can see how a Boar could be considered a boss monster.