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Update: Malhavoc PDFs no longer available at RPGnow (merged)

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Gez

First Post
BrooklynKnight said:
Any person who legally buys a product, typically wont go the extra length to crack the file.

Typically its those that never intend to buy the file to begin with that crack it.

Depends. When you need a feature that's disabled, like the copy/paste. Same thing happen with "protected" CD. When you can't read them in your player, you buy another player, or you download MP3s? The industry wants the former, but it's a pipe dream. Especially when there's half a dozen different formats of protected CDs that requires half a dozen different players...
 

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RCanning

First Post
DRM has often meant that I can't print any protected PDFs I have got (from non RPG stuff), because where I get my stuff printed uses locked down machines that are not connected to the internet and wont allow changes to their software.

This generally means that the PDF wont 'register' on the machine, and that it can not be printed. Therefore instead of my PDFs being colour laser duplex printed on very nice machines, I am stuck with black and white laser which is single sided and really really slow; because that is what I have at home.

I also tend to do a lot of PDF shopping at work, so this will kill any impulse buys; which are about 80% of my purchases. I just can't help myself.

The other problem is compatibility. I have seen DRM PDFs that will only open on a Windows machine (I use a Mac), or only open if you are running the latest version of Acrobat Reader (which is often incompatible with running an older version of Acrobat full), or only open if you are running the latest version of Windows (finding out that without an online Windows XP box which was fully registered with Microsoft was a pain for a PDF a friend got).

Next, how does this new store deal with International customers. I hope it is better than my previous experiences with a WW run online store, where they had International Shipping charges on their website, but would not accept my credit card because I was outside the US. When I asked them about it I was told "International shipping is there for valid customers who want to send stuff to friends overseas." Basically I was told that if I don't live in America, I am not a "valid customer".

All of these things could be good, or they could be bad. I hope that what we get is an online store where anyone with an internet connection can purchase a PDF, burn it to a CD, take to anywhere and print it, and also have copies across their computers. I write at work, so I use my PDFs there. I write at home, I use my PDFs there. And I keep them on my iPod so when I am at a friends house and want to do some work, I can open them there as well. If DRM kills that, then that will factor into my decision about how much the product is worth. If it was $10 unlocked, I would probably spend no more than $6 if it had tight lockdowns.

Here's hoping that Malhavoc, who write and publish fantastic material, don't alienate their client base too much.

Richard Canning
 

BryonD

Hero
Morrus said:
I can pretty much guarantee they aren't trying to alienate you!

"Trying" may not be relevant.
At a minimum the only changes I can tell are happening are:
A) Vendor Exclusivity and
B) Some degree of reduced product utility

Both of these are anti-consumer. I don't see any upside for the consumer.
That is alienating.
Sometimes you accomplish things without even trying.

Of course the sky is not falling, but my tendency to buy product from some companies is.
 

WCrawford

First Post
Monte At Home said:
I know that change can be off-putting. That's why we put out a brand new free (short) pdf on that site called Narrog the Earth Serpent so you could give the new vendor a try for free. I think that if you actually try DriveThru you'll find that it's not hard (you need the latest version of Adobe reader, but that's free too). They've got some nice How To and FAQ pages that you'll find to be very helpful (and if you want a laugh, click on the speaker on the menu board, in fact do it a number of times).

Its really crappy when a supposedly free product has a charge attached to it.
 

Belen

Adventurer
Most of my Malhavoc PDF purchases are made at work because I have a cable connection at work. If DRM limits my ability to port my legally bought PDFs, then I will not buy them any longer. As a person who have purchased almost every Malhavoc PDF, I am a bit mad at having this happen.

Sorry, Monte, but I will not register with my home computer and if I cannot use Malhavoc PDFs from home, then I cannot buy Malhavoc PDFs. I can wait for the print products, but there will be far fewer buys on those. I love your work, but extended hassel does not work for me, especially considering the trouble I have had with WW in the past.

And I was looking forward to the Book of Iron Might, darn it! This is depressing.

Any chance that the print products can come out sooner?
 

isidorus

Explorer
Supporter
Any game company using DRM for thier Pdf's will also lose sales to me on thier print products. I am only going to support RpgNow especially Phil Reed products.
What I do not understand is how DRM is going to help the companies what so ever, since I have been reading all these threads here and at Rpg.net.

Seems to me the companies are going down the slippery slope of the RIAA and MPAA have been going. Is really in their best interests to treat everyone like a "pirate" :( I do not support piracy in any form, just to make that clear. I think this is going to hurt your sales somewhat. Semms to me in the using DRM, everyone is now considered a perviced thief.

To be a little snarky here:

I wonder how long it will be before they band together and sue thier customers like the RIAA for perceived "piracy".
 

3catcircus

Adventurer
wedgeski said:
Whether we as consumers like it or not, piracy is the bogey-man of most industries which depend on copyright to make money. Solid DRM might actually *encourage* the bigger players to participate in the further growth of the PDF industry. I suggest everyone stops whining about it. And the first person that says they will rip-off a Malhavoc product to 'teach them a lesson' can go and stick their head in a furnace because no-one (I hope) will be fooled by their bull.

This is the most completely misunderstood aspect of copyright. Copyright is not now, nor has it ever been to allow someone to make money, or even in the broader sense to protect authors' work from those who would steal it - copyright has always been solely about encouraging innovation and new creation, as per the Constitution (Article I, Section 8, Clause 8) " ...to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts."

Additionally, copyright violation was always a civil offense rather than a criminal one. Now, thanks to the efforts of BSA, RIAA, et al. to have the government do their bidding by lobbying and getting the NET act and the DMCA turned into laws, copyright violation is a criminal act.

Also, the term "piracy" is a misnomer - according to international law, piracy can only occur on the high seas...

While I agree that people should be able to be paid for their efforts, the fact of the matter is that it is far better to figure in the costs of copyright violation as a matter of doing business rather than spend time and money agonizing over it in a never-ending battle. Retail operations already book the fact that they'll have a rough percentage of loss due to theft - many retail stores don't even prosecute shoplifters unless they are also employees because it costs more than just writing off the loss when they do their taxes. If someone wants to break DRM badly enough, it will happen no matter how much money and time is invested otherwise. It has happened every time it occurs. More importantly, publishers will never keep up with the pirates, who have the advantage of more time, more desire, and, in most cases, much more intelligence than the people who devise DRM or any type of copy protection. Just take a lesson from the German military - for every code invented, there will almost always be a code breaker, given enough time, effort and brains to figure it out. Fact is, most of the companies that offer some type of DRM are charlatans - every single DRM implementation has only been implemented by breaking the product it is protecting - whether that is a password/serial, a dongle, encryption, or a watermark.

Also hard to get a grip around is the idea that "copying" is somehow theft - legal theory aside, if I leave you with the original, how can it be theft? How is downloading a copy off of the internet any different than photocopying a paper version from the library or giving your friend a tape of an album, other than ease of use? The argument that this represents a lost sale is fallacious because, debate aside, common-sense dictates that it represents someone who will never have purchased a copy or who will end up buying a legitimate copy.

Generally, people really don't want to be told how and when they can use something they just spent their hard-earned money on. How would it feel to be told "you can't wear that shirt with those pants" (wives notwithstanding)? How about "you can only drive your car twice a week and you have to use Getty gas"?

Bottom line - make a quality product that people can use any way they want and they will buy it. I freely admit that I've gotten pdfs of many rpg titles off of the net - but I also own a paper version of every one of them. The paper versions have good "hand feel," but when I'm not at home and need a quick rules lookup or want to print out disposable map copies, I use the pdf.
 
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Psion

Adventurer
Additionally, copyright violation was always a civil offense rather than a criminal one. Now, thanks to the efforts of BSA, RIAA, et al. to have the government do their bidding by lobbying and getting the NET act and the DMCA turned into laws, copyright violation is a criminal act.

This is incorrect. Copyright laws have long had criminal components to them. The loss of rationality is that before, it always had to be demonstrated you did damage by breaching copyrights.
 
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www.montecook.com/mpress_Drivethru_PR.html said:
DriveThruRPG.com is the first completely professional gaming e-Book site, and it offers secure downloads using Adobe's secure server technology. Basically what iTunes is for music, DriveThruRPG.com is for roleplaying games. Like PDFs, e-Books are electronic editions of physical books, but they use Adobe's Digital Rights Management (DRM) technology for copyright protection. This secure technology is designed to help combat Internet piracy.


Listen up, all you smug software pirates: you have driven Malhavoc into using Digital Rights Management to protect their assets. Next time you are blithely stealing someone's intellectual property, reasoning that 'no one gets hurt', think about everyone on this thread who will be inconvenienced by the shift to DRM.

But you Internet thieves never bother to think about anything other than yourselves, do you?

:mad:
 

Belen

Adventurer
Personally, I have never once used KaZaa etc. This move is akin to forcing people to register when you buy a book. They get to "legally" track how you use their product, force you to use it in a way that they choose, and make you like it.

The only thing that makes the PDF market worthwhile is low prices and ease of use. When I have to register Adobe etc on EVERY computer I own just to port a PDF file, then it becomes useless to use.

This is a really crappy thing to do to loyal customers.
 

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