Update: Malhavoc PDFs no longer available at RPGnow (merged)

[PetriWessman]

It's the same logic that has resulted in a ton of people (myself included) not buying CDs lately, at least not from the major labels are are involved in the crap going on regarding them right now.

Yeah, same here. The whole DRM thing is a lot more than just "it's a hassle", it's a huge issue that connects to the slow erosion of customer rights over the last years. It boils down to companies not really wanting to sell you copies of whatever they are selling and instead wanting to sell you some sort of "license" or "subscription". Suddenly you don't have a lot of rights you're used to having and which the law gives you (since you don't actually own the copy, you kinda-sort lease limited rights to use a copy), and suddenly companies can change how something works (or if it works at all) years after you have bought that something. Naturally, with no guarantee of anything you buy actually being usable 5 years down the road.

Companies love that, they get all the benefits. Customers loathe it. It may work when you have a monopoly and are offering something that a lot of people need. It starts to break down when customers have a choice and when you're selling luxury items to a small, niche market. *Usually* in markets like that, Rule #1 is "keep the customers happy and give them what they want".

I have rpg books on my shelf that are over 20 years old. They work fine. I don't have to phone Mr. Gygax every time I want to read the books at a new location. I can sell them if I want to.

What kind of software do you think you'll be using in 20 years time? What kind of operating system? What kind of a guarantee do you have that the DRM'ed books will stay usable even 5 years, let alone 20? Adobe may go out of business next year. DTRPG will hopefully go out of business a lot sooner. What then? There's a very, very real danger of you ending up with a big "bookshelf" that you've paid a lot of money for and that you no longer have access to. When I buy a book, I think of it as a long-term thing.

*That* is why this whole thing is such a big deal for people. It's part of a much bigger picture.

And no, I haven't bought many CDs lately either, because a lot of them have "copy-protection" crap on them which is just as useless in deterring pirates as the Adobe DRM is, and the cause of just as many technical problems as the Adobe DRM is. So far I've gotten pirate copies of, hmm, probably 8 cds that I would have bought if they had been available as normal CD copies. They weren't, so I said "f*ck this" and saved the money. Was very easy too, since my sympathy for the (big) music business is currently pretty close to zero. My sympathy for the rpg business is still pretty high, I want these guys to make money (if the big music companies go bankrupt I'll hold a party and dance on the graves). And no, I'm not a pirate as such, I own 600+ Cds. I just absolutely will not support companies who cross a certain line.

All this will go away. If the RIAA with its millions upon millions of dollars hasn't managed to make a dent in the piracy scene (other than drive people to it), there's no hope in hell a few penny-ante rpg publishers have the resources to do it (no offense to said publishers, but they aren't even near the same leagues as the music and movie industries).

It's just a pity that during the time it takes for these dinosaurs to realize they have to evolve or die, we'll have to put up with crap like Adobe DRM, "copy-protected 'CDs'", and other bright ideas.

That being said, if Monte's sales take a plumet immedietly after embracing DRM encryption, well, Monte's a smart guy.

Unless he's locked into an exclusive multiyear contract with DTRPG, which by some accounts may be the case. In which case... I hope he either has lots of cash stored away, or some kind of exit clause in the contract.

Of course, we could all be wrong. Customers may actually love DTRGP, and money may very well be pouring into Monte's bank account like the Niagara Falls. In which case... someone, please wake me up. Please? :}

 

[tm80401]

All this being said, if you want to have an impact on this....write a letter.

A real letter. With a stamp sent through snail-mail.

Companies generally pay much more attention to actual letters than e-mail.

If you have chosen not to do business with them until they stop supporting a company that uses this type (or any type) of DRM, let them know that.

If you have chosen not to purchase their PDF products because of this type of DRM, let them know that.

If you support their choice and have no problems with the direction they have chosen, let them know that.

Just let them know.

Send a concise, non-ranting letter to the company explaining your decision, what, if any, your objections are, and what it would take to get your business back if you have chosen not to support them any longer.

Don't whine, scream, threaten, accuse, rant, or otherwise insult them. Remember, you are actually trying to get them to change to doing what you want.

I, personally, hope that any kind of DRM that collects data on the users goes down the tubes faster than the Pentagon's Total Information Awareness project did when word of it got out.

You may not.

Let the companies know. Both with your words and with your wallet.

 

[Thanatos]

I have put in alot of thought on it and kept up with various threads on the subject.

Myself, I will not buy any product (DRM-PDF or print) from a company that supports DRM technology use. Basically, any from that list, + or - any modifications that are made to it.

Wizdru makes a valid point about letters of intent and that it will sully the waters and make it tougher for a publisher to know why they are seeing decreased sales.

I read somewhere else in this thread that targeted boycotts don't tend to be as effective as total boycotts and I find myself in more agreeance with that.

My rationalization is this: A targeted boycott is akin to going into a resturant and refusing to order a tuna sandwhich because it isn't dolphin safe, while telling everyone this. Resturant still gets a chunk of your money and won't necessairly care whether you order the tuna sandwhich or not. A total boycott would be standing outside with a sign letting everyone know about the tuna sandwhich, which may turn customers way and hurt the resturants bottom line. Drop the tuna sandwhich off the menu and those cutomsters holding the signs drop them and come in for lunch.

I don't know if that is a good analogy...but its what worked for me. All these threads across so many forums show visible, public intent and many of the emails sent along with these threads should provide any company with enough information to make at least a somewhat accurate analyzation of why sales may drop on their products.

And if a company drops this DRM thing, I'll be happy to buy products from them again. Nothing personal and no grudge. DRM isn't something I just stand against on principle, I am also one of those who has multiple computers/devices and won't be able to use a DRM encrypted product on some of them.

I was a bit angry in an earlier post or two, but it was mostly shock over this whole thing and I apologize for hasty posts.

I also want to think all those posters who have posted bits of copyright law and DCMA and such...and people like Wizdru, who make good points, even if I don't agree. You've all been enlightening. Thanks.

 

[hexgrid]

What kind of software do you think you'll be using in 20 years time? What kind of operating system? What kind of a guarantee do you have that the DRM'ed books will stay usable even 5 years, let alone 20? Adobe may go out of business next year. DTRPG will hopefully go out of business a lot sooner. What then? There's a very, very real danger of you ending up with a big "bookshelf" that you've paid a lot of money for and that you no longer have access to. When I buy a book, I think of it as a long-term thing.

hmm....

But if you follow that logic, you should never purchase any computer software, ever. Or any sort of technological device.

It's interesting. We've so embraced our role as consumers that we speak of "customer rights" with the same fervor others might reserve for speaking of human or civil rights.

 

[Henry]

All this being said, if you want to have an impact on this....write a letter.

A real letter. With a stamp sent through snail-mail.

That I can wholly get behind. If someone is upset about an issue, companies take Written Correspondence more seriously than E-mail - mainly because it involves more effort! Someone once told me that "One written letter is worth ten E-mails." I can understand why.

 

[johnsemlak]

That I can wholly get behind. If someone is upset about an issue, companies take Written Correspondence more seriously than E-mail - mainly because it involves more effort! Someone once told me that "One written letter is worth ten E-mails." I can understand why.

I'd bet is more like letter (signed and personalized) is worth 100 emails, but that's speculation.

And worth 250 posts on a messageboard.

 

[PetriWessman]

hmm....

But if you follow that logic, you should never purchase any computer software, ever. Or any sort of technological device.

True. But take software, it's intimately tied to a certain technology and (often) hardware, so it's natural that it has a lifetime that is tied to the platform it's running on.

For hardware devices, they don't flat out *stop working* at some point (barring normal wear and tear), or change the way they are working because the company that you bought it from changed their business strategy. Sure, in some cases you may make a mistake and buy into a technology that proves to be a dud, leaving you with a big expensive paperweight. There's a reason people usually refer to those purchases as "mistakes", and are pretty wary of new, unproven stuff.

For data, expectations are different. I expect my music collection to stay with me pretty much forever, since I can freely back up the CDs or maybe even switch them to another format when / if that becomes standard. Printed books do break down at some point, true, but like I said normal printed books have a very long lifetime, if stored properly.

Everything wears down and breaks given enough time. The important point here is that the DRM is imposing an artificial obsolescense to my books, which may slam shut in one year or may last for 20. I have no way of knowing, and have no reason to trust the companies since they explicitly have a "something doesn't work? Sorry, you have to buy a new copy" policy. It's in their *direct* *financial* *interest* to force me to buy a new copy at some point.

It's as if my books were written in a magic ink, which might fade away at a random date (in this case, remote-controllable by the bookstore).

Looking at history for the last 10 years or so, this sort of thing has happened *a lot*. "You have stuff in Format X? Sorry, we don't support that anymore. Please buy a new copy in Format Z."

It's interesting. We've so embraced our role as consumers that we speak of "customer rights" with the same fervor others might reserve for speaking of human or civil rights.

It's a good thing that we live in a society where we can concentrate on things like these, instead of "will the secret police come for me tonight?" or "where will I get food?".

However, even though IP rights issues are less important than human rights, that doesn't make them not important - any more than the fact that "hey, we don't have slavery anymore and black people can actually vote!" is relevant to the issue of equal rights and the stamping out of racism. Society evolves, and each point in time has a set of "important issues" that apply to that society at that point in time. In my view, IP rights (DRM, software patents, the whole notion of copyright, etc) is currently one of those big issues.

 

[RCanning]

But if you follow that logic, you should never purchase any computer software, ever. Or any sort of technological device.

It's interesting. We've so embraced our role as consumers that we speak of "customer rights" with the same fervor others might reserve for speaking of human or civil rights.

There is a difference.

How would you feel if you went to your bookshelf, picked up a copy of a book you bought 2 years ago, and found all the pages blank? Would you accept that you had read it once or twice, had therefore got what you paid for, and go and buy it again?

When you purchase software, you can keep using it. My grandmother has my computer that I was using back in 1990. She runs DOS 5.1, and Word Perfect. She types her letters and prints them and sends them off. She plays solitaire. She uses Lotus 123. It works for her still.

Do some study on planned obsolescence. Companies started using it majorly in the 40s and 50s to cause people to have to keep upgrading. It had nothing to do with the fact that the new product is better, it has to do with keeping the people who make the products in jobs buy getting people to purchase the new version of the product; this has generally applied to things that are mechanical and wear out. Not any more.

Now they can put planned obsolesence into books and music as well. You purchase a text book for your eldest child, and when your next youngest needs exactly the same textbook 2 years later, you can't let him use it; because the book you purchased has expired and you can't pass it on.

This is the danger with DRM. The fact that the distributor can change how much access you have to the document after you have already purchased it. If you read up on Adobe's Product Specs, you will find there is nothing stopping DTRPG setting their server to shut down all the DRM pdfs that are out there. The next time you open it while you are connected to the internet; the file won't open. I am not saying they WILL do this, but they CAN do this.

You purchase "The Book of Everything" in Sept 2004. In Dec 2005 they release "The Book of Everything: Plus a bit more". There is nothing stopping them from disabling all copies of "The Book of Everything" so that you are forced to upgrade. Sure you will complain, and refuse to purchase the new product; but by then it is too late, you have already lost the book you paid for. Again, I am not saying they WILL do this (I seriously doubt it), but they CAN.

I am just terrorfied by the concept of companies being able to decide when and if literature becomes obsolete... Heck, I just realised. Say you purchase a product which becomes controversial, and someone in a government office somewhere decides that the publication should not be out there. They can turn your book off, without your permission. This is a wonderful method to control information, because someone else can decide what books you are allowed to hang on to. It is like the police coming into your house, looking through your bookshelf, and taking away anything they thing you should not have.

I am scaring myself. I am going to go to bed.

Richard Canning

Update: It scares me that PetriWessman and I both had the same responce thoughts at the same time. Snap.

 

[Psion]

I hate to interrupt the philosophical debate, but here's an FYI I am trying to distribute to all the appropriate threads.

Contrary to what Steve Wieck and the DTRPG "response to common misconceptions" link has stated, there is a 6 machine registration limit through adobe, albeit there is some provision to reset machines through customer service. The DTRPG "common misconceptions page" has been updated with the following passage:

Note that you can only have 6 computers activated at any one time; however, the following is from Adobe Support: "If you have reformatted your hard drive or you have a new computer, you can call Customer Service at 800-272-3623 to get your activation reset. Press 1 for sales." We have used this number to reset activations with no difficulty.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Petri and RCanning, I think with your obsolescence arguments that you're forgetting the people behind the RPGs. We all know Monte, Fiery James and MikeMearls, for example, to some extent because they post here at least semi-regularly. These aren't the type of people that regularly go out of their way to hurt people because they can or to make a couple extra bucks. If this were an issue involving major corporations I might have different concerns, but within the RPG community, I've got very, very few.