Use of Skills Question

[Primitive Screwhead]

4E is supposed to encourage stunts like this, not bury them beneath a plethora of required skill checks for every minute aspect of the stunt....

I completely agree with the OPS choice of ruling and with Kordeth's evaluation of the scene.
I *want* my players to be cinematic and not worry about whether the statue is unstable or if the Pally might be knocked off balance.. there is a reason why they are the heroes of the story. I much prefer the after game talk that starts with 'Man, that was awesome when....'

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Next time, just remember him that the errated 4E stunt DCs are not that hard, even if you are untrained.

 

[DracoSuave]

Personally, I'd have let him use Athletics -or- Acrobatics. 4e doesn't foster the 'only one skill applies in any situation' mentality, and I want players to use their skills. As well, you want to keep the earlier parts of the task resolution easy, and the harder part for the end. (rising tension ftw)

So, to start, I'd have him go Athletics or Acrobatics (both can apply in this situation, the differences coming down to how it is described by the player, let him make his choice) for a relevant DC. Then, he is using the statue in the attack. Does this require two rolls to do the job of one? No. Strength vs Reflex for a one-time damage is more than capable of encapsulating both pushing (Strength) and the attack itself.

And as for the Paladin?

Well, let's make him join the fun too. He can give the player a 'boost' if he's readied an action to do so. Athletics DC 15 gives the acrobat +1 to hit with his attack, with an additional +1 for every 5 DC above that. ('Paladin, you have helped propel Sneakeh to his destination, enabling him to land with perfect grace. He now has time to line up a good shot...') This will help to even the attack curve out so the attack isn't at a disadvantage compared to implement attacks.

Keep it as simple as can. Don't roll a million dice for no reason, that's just discouraging by increasing the failure rate for no fun-gain. But, give opportunities to create greater successes and the players will -love- it and look for other opportunities to be flashy.

Rule of Awesome is a better rule than Rule of Roll Every Skill You Have.

 

[ryryguy]

I think your ruling was not bad...

there is a general issue that the mechanics tend to reward just using a power over trying a stunt like this. If you like to encourage stunts, it's probably worth it to be pretty generous in setting their difficulty. In your example, having to succeed at two skill checks increases the chance of failure significantly, even if the PC was trained at both skills.

On the other hand, if success at the first skill allowed the player to end up in an advantageous position, it's not a complete waste even if the second check is failed. Also, if the first check is the one that's failed, the PC still has a standard action left and may be able to attack normally.

Check out this blog post which addresses the issue:
It’s your turn. Do something awesome! - At Will

Getting a +2 to a skill check made as part of the "awesome" maneuver is one suggestion in the blog post, just as you did in practice.