Using a staff while grappled?

[Three_Haligonians]

Hey all,

Let's say my druid has a staff of sunbeam and during combat with a vampire, ends up in a grapple with it. So I decided to use my staff and hit it with a sunbeam. Which scenario is correct (either by RAW or by common sense):

A) The druid can only target the vampire if he choses to also target himself because they are currently sharing the same square. (Chooses a corner and direction for the line that covers his own sqaure)

OR

B) The druid can target the vampire with no danger to himself because the Area entry of the spell in the PHB specifies that the line extends from the hand.

Bonus question:
Let's say it's not a Druid but a Sorcerer with ranks in Use Magic Device. What caster level is the sunbeam cast at?

J and R from Three Haligonians

 

[Henrix]

A line effect either affects all creatures in a square, or none of them. I could see a DM house ruling this away, but by the books that is how it works.

A staff uses either the caster level of the staff (which would be minimum 13 for a staff with sunbeam), or the caster level of the person activating it, whichever is higher.
If it is activated with Use Magic Device the caster level would thus be 13*, as there are no rules for emulating a higher level.
(Another house rule would be to allow a character with UMD emulate a higher level as if using a scroll, i.e. DC 20+ caster level.)

* Unless the character is an even higher level druid (or cleric with access to the Sun domain).

 

[Hypersmurf]

A staff uses either the caster level of the staff (which would be minimum 13 for a staff with sunbeam), or the caster level of the person activating it, whichever is higher.
If it is activated with Use Magic Device the caster level would thus be 13*, as there are no rules for emulating a higher level.
(Another house rule would be to allow a character with UMD emulate a higher level as if using a scroll, i.e. DC 20+ caster level.)

* Unless the character is an even higher level druid (or cleric with access to the Sun domain).

I disagree with your footnote.

Let's say we have a Sor-15 activating the staff with Use Magic Device.

Use a Wand: Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill also applies to other spell trigger magic items, such as staffs.

He activates the Sunbeam spell as if it were on his class list. It behaves like any other sorcerer spell from a staff. If the sorcerer activates Magic Missile from a staff, it's cast at CL15, because it uses his caster level when it's higher than the staff's caster level. Since he is activating Sunbeam as if it were on his class list, it would also be cast at CL15.

If a Rog-15 activated the staff, then it would be at CL13, since the rogue doesn't have a caster level in the first place.

Let's say my druid has a staff of sunbeam and during combat with a vampire, ends up in a grapple with it. So I decided to use my staff and hit it with a sunbeam.

You can't.

A line-shaped spell shoots away from you in a line in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that blocks line of effect.

We have three points to consider.

1. The line begins at a corner of your square.
2. The line shoots away from you.
3. The vampire is in your square.

You can't start the line at a corner of the square, and cause it to travel away from you so as to pass through your square. If the line passes through your square, it isn't travelling away from you, it's travelling towards you.

-Hyp.

 

[Fieari]

While Hyp is correct, the image that casting Sunbeam while grappling with a vampire is too cool for me to use the RAW here. May I suggest a house rule?

 

[Three_Haligonians]

You can't.

A line-shaped spell shoots away from you in a line in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and extends to the limit of its range or until it strikes a barrier that blocks line of effect.

We have three points to consider.

1. The line begins at a corner of your square.
2. The line shoots away from you.
3. The vampire is in your square.

You can't start the line at a corner of the square, and cause it to travel away from you so as to pass through your square. If the line passes through your square, it isn't travelling away from you, it's travelling towards you.

-Hyp.

Oh right, I guess you can't shoot a line through your own space. However, about the Sunbeam spell, it says right in the Area Entry of the spell that the spell forms a "line from your hand". Does this override the other rule about a line starting from a corner of your square?

R from Three Haligonians

 

[Hypersmurf]

Oh right, I guess you can't shoot a line through your own space. However, about the Sunbeam spell, it says right in the Area Entry of the spell that the spell forms a "line from your hand". Does this override the other rule about a line starting from a corner of your square?

They can both be true... it just means that part of the somatic component is sticking your hand at a corner of your square

-Hyp.

 

[mzsylver]

They can both be true... it just means that part of the somatic component is sticking your hand at a corner of your square

Unless it is a Still Sunbeam...

However, I agree that this is a messed up situation. I might rule, though I dont believe the rules follow it, that you can affect the vampire.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Unless it is a Still Sunbeam...

Of course, Still Sunbeam can be cast without hands. If you're holding a club in each hand and cast Still Sunbeam, where does the line begin? If you're buried up to your neck in concrete and cast Still Sunbeam, where does the line begin? If you're a dragon with claws instead of hands, or you have your hands chopped off, where does the line begin?

-Hyp.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Of course, Still Sunbeam can be cast without hands. If you're holding a club in each hand and cast Still Sunbeam, where does the line begin? If you're buried up to your neck in concrete and cast Still Sunbeam, where does the line begin? If you're a dragon with claws instead of hands, or you have your hands chopped off, where does the line begin?

-Hyp.

But not using your hands isn't the same as not having hands. If you're holding a club in each hand (an amusing image, by the way) then the line could still begin from your hand. As for not having hands, well I'd say it comes from whatever part of your body is closest to where your hands should be.

R from Three Haligonians

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you're holding a club in each hand (an amusing image, by the way) then the line could still begin from your hand.

So in that case, would the buried-in-concrete example fail due to no line of effect, even though you're casting the spell with no Somatic component, and there's a clear path from the corner of your square to where your opponents are?

-Hyp.