Using and Abusing the Item Creation rules

[aglondier]

I've been tooling around with the Item Creation rules for a while (blame my current lack of a game) and I wanted to get some opinions on a few toys I came up with.

Infinite Wand
(Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Wand)
Spell Effect, Command Word - Spell Level x Caster level x 1800gp
Limitation: Arcane Spellcaster only -30%

Magic Missile (1d4+1) - 1x1x1800x0.7 = 1260gp base cost = 630gp 50xp cost to make
Magic Missile (2d4+2) - 1x3x1800x0.7 = 3780gp base cost = 1890gp 151xp cost to make
Magic Missile (3d4+3) - 1x5x1800x0.7 = 6300gp base cost = 3150gp 252xp cost to make
etc

Lesser Infinite Wand
(Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Wand)
Spell Effect, Command Word - Spell level x Caster level x 1800gp
Limitation: Arcane Spellcaster only -30%
Limitation: can only cast every 1d3 rounds -30%

Fireball (5d6) - 3x5x1800x0.7x0.7 = 13230gp base cost = 6615gp 529xp cost to make

Basically, picturing my mage standing there with a wand in each hand, firing off one or more magic missiles every round, except every d3 rounds in which he lobs off a fireball. Expensive, yes. But being able to reliably cause damage every round without worrying about your useless BAB makes it a worthwhile investment for the expected 9000gp your 5th level mage should have access to.

Infinite Scroll
(Craft Wondrous Item, Scribe Scroll)
Spell Effect, Command Word - Spell level x Caster level x 1800gp
Limitation: Spell Completion -30%
Limitation: cast 1/day -80%

Alarm - 1x1x1800x0.7x0.2 = 252gp base cost = 126gp 10xp cost to make
Identify - 1x1x1800x0.7x0.2 = 252gp base cost + 50x100gp material component = 5126gp 10xp cost to make
See Invisible - 2x3x1800x0.7x0.2 = 1512gp base cost = 756gp 60xp cost to make
etc

It is basically a scroll that doesn't get used up, and recharges to be used again the next day. I see these as an alternative to memorising utility spells, you know, the kind of spell you only need once in a while, but never seem to memorise, or you do memorise, but never actually cast. These would be carried in a scroll case, or perhaps a handful could be bound together into a poor mans Book of Infinite Spells.

Token of Language
(Craft Wondrous Item)
Skill Bonus (competence) - Bonus Squared x 100gp

Speak Language (draconic) - 1x1x100 = 100gp base cost = 50gp 4xp cost to make
Speak Language (orc) - 1x1x100 = 100gp base cost = 50gp 4xp cost to make
etc

A small carved charm on a length of cord worn about the neck that gives fluency in a single language. It requires only a single point in Speak Language to master a language, so it is a very cheap item to make.

Tattoo of [single use spell]
(Craft Wondrous Item)
Spell Effect, Single Use, Use Activated Spell - Spell level x Caster level x 50gp
Limitation: Spell affects user only -10%

Feather Fall - 1x1x50x0.9 = 45gp base cost = 22gp 5sp 2xp cost to make
Gentle Repose - 3x5x50x0.9 = 675gp base cost = 337gp 5sp 27xp cost to make
etc

Really, how many times does the party have to fall into a pit trap before they take some kind of precaution? In this case, having a single use Feather Fall spell carved into their flesh that activates when they fall more than 10 feet, 50gp is a small price, really. The other one I plan to use regularly is Gentle Repose, set to activate upon death, signifigantly increasing the time we have to get the dead party member to a priest. Well worth the cost.

I have a lot more, but I will have to dig them out. I would like to hear opinions on cost and game balance etc...

 

[delericho]

The 3e item creation rules are utterly broken. Seriously - they have enough math behind them to give the impression that somebody has sat down and worked all this out, but after just a little bit of abuse in the hands of someone determined to... optimise the system it becomes very apparent that they have nowhere near the mathematical rigour that they pretend.

I'm also reasonably sure that 3e was playtested "as though it was 2nd Edition" - that is, with healbot clerics, blaster wizards, and very little heavy use/abuse of the item creation system. Oh, and at mostly low levels.

So, bearing that in mind...

Infinite Wand
(Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Wand)
Spell Effect, Command Word - Spell Level x Caster level x 1800gp
Limitation: Arcane Spellcaster only -30%

Magic Missile (1d4+1) - 1x1x1800x0.7 = 1260gp base cost = 630gp 50xp cost to make
Magic Missile (2d4+2) - 1x3x1800x0.7 = 3780gp base cost = 1890gp 151xp cost to make
Magic Missile (3d4+3) - 1x5x1800x0.7 = 6300gp base cost = 3150gp 252xp cost to make
etc

Lesser Infinite Wand
(Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Wand)
Spell Effect, Command Word - Spell level x Caster level x 1800gp
Limitation: Arcane Spellcaster only -30%
Limitation: can only cast every 1d3 rounds -30%

Fireball (5d6) - 3x5x1800x0.7x0.7 = 13230gp base cost = 6615gp 529xp cost to make

In both cases, I would disallow the "Arcane Spellcaster" limitation. Since you're creating these items for your own use, it's not really a limitation even if only you can use it.

For these I would also point you to the eternal wands in Eberron. They're not quite the same, but I'd be inclined to rule that those are the items you can create.

Infinite Scroll
(Craft Wondrous Item, Scribe Scroll)
Spell Effect, Command Word - Spell level x Caster level x 1800gp
Limitation: Spell Completion -30%
Limitation: cast 1/day -80%

Alarm - 1x1x1800x0.7x0.2 = 252gp base cost = 126gp 10xp cost to make
Identify - 1x1x1800x0.7x0.2 = 252gp base cost + 50x100gp material component = 5126gp 10xp cost to make
See Invisible - 2x3x1800x0.7x0.2 = 1512gp base cost = 756gp 60xp cost to make
etc

I have a similar objection to these - probably the weakest bit of the item creation rules as-is is the ability for casters to very cheaply create scrolls of low-level "utility" spells - spells where the caster level isn't a hugely important consideration. This item seems to have the same problems associated it, only moreso.

I should probably note at this point that as far as I can see these items are rules-legal. The above is a ruling I would make based on my experiences with the system, not a statement of RAW.

Token of Language
(Craft Wondrous Item)
Skill Bonus (competence) - Bonus Squared x 100gp

Speak Language (draconic) - 1x1x100 = 100gp base cost = 50gp 4xp cost to make
Speak Language (orc) - 1x1x100 = 100gp base cost = 50gp 4xp cost to make
etc

A small carved charm on a length of cord worn about the neck that gives fluency in a single language. It requires only a single point in Speak Language to master a language, so it is a very cheap item to make.

It also doesn't work. It takes a single rank in Speak Language to master a language, and this item does not grant that. Sorry; this one doesn't fly.

Tattoo of [single use spell]
(Craft Wondrous Item)
Spell Effect, Single Use, Use Activated Spell - Spell level x Caster level x 50gp
Limitation: Spell affects user only -10%

Feather Fall - 1x1x50x0.9 = 45gp base cost = 22gp 5sp 2xp cost to make
Gentle Repose - 3x5x50x0.9 = 675gp base cost = 337gp 5sp 27xp cost to make
etc

Again, no joy. What you have here are effectively auto-activating potions that cannot be lost, stolen, or otherwise removed. They're fine items, but there's no way the cost should be lower than a comparable potion.

 

[billd91]

The 3e item creation rules are utterly broken. Seriously - they have enough math behind them to give the impression that somebody has sat down and worked all this out, but after just a little bit of abuse in the hands of someone determined to... optimise the system it becomes very apparent that they have nowhere near the mathematical rigour that they pretend.

While I have no problem with your takedown of the suggested magic items, I don't agree with this analysis of the 3e magic item rules. I don't believe they pretend to significant mathematical rigor. That's why the rules flatly state that the easiest way to come up with a price is to match the new item to an item already priced in the magic item chapter. They also state that the formulas are just a starting point and that DM judgment will likely be involved.

 

[delericho]

While I have no problem with your takedown of the suggested magic items, I don't agree with this analysis of the 3e magic item rules. I don't believe they pretend to significant mathematical rigor.

Probably the most problematic aspect of item creation is low-level "utility" scrolls, and that's one of the few areas that does strictly follow a mathematical formula. That suggests at least some mathematical basis, and it's too much.

That's why the rules flatly state that the easiest way to come up with a price is to match the new item to an item already priced in the magic item chapter.

Which would be great, if we could be assured that the existing prices are in the correct ballpark. But, as was discussed at some length in the run-up to the "Magic Item Compendium" being released (the first time), they're frequently not.

Unfortunately, the fix introduced in the MIC (using "level X items") wasn't much better.

They also state that the formulas are just a starting point and that DM judgment will likely be involved.

This is true. One of the things they did get right.

 

[Greenfield]

I couldn't help but notice that your Infinite Wands are cheaper than the non-infinite versions of the same level.

1st level infinite wand of Magic Missile is 630 gp, while the standard is 750?

Unless I'm mistaken, the DMG's rules for limitations on items puts a cap on the total discount, and that 80% off one sharply exceeds it.Your Infinite Scroll looks a lot like a certain Artifact called a Book of Infinite Spells, except that it's cheaper and lacks the limitations of the Artifact.

The rule for a Wondrous Item that casts spell effects is caster level x spell level x 1800 for command activated. That gets 5 uses per day. There's a multiplier if you want more than that, and a divisor if you want less.

For example, if an item would normally have charges (such as a wand) and you want it to be unlimited, calculate the price as if it had 100 charges. (That's double the cost for Wands and Staves,and probably Scrolls) That's right from the SRD, by the way.

For unlimited/continuous use of spell abilities, the multiplier is based on normal spell duration. 10 minute per level spells have a multiplier of 1.5. 1 minute per level spells have a x2 multiplier. 1 round per level spells have a x4 multiplier.

That's from the same table in the SRD, and is probably intended to be distinct from "instant" spells like Magic Missile and Fireball.

 

[aglondier]

To get the price for an item that is only used once per day, you divide the price by 5 and multiply it by the number of uses per day, in this case 1...which equates to 1/5th of the price, which is the same as saying -80%. The final cost price I listed is the actual cost in materials, not the market price as listed in the DMG. Double the crafting price to get the base cost (which I also listed).

As for the Token of Language...bugger. I missed that, thanks for pointing it out...back to the drawing board...
And fair enough on the tattoo/potion cost equivalency.

As for the Arcane Spellcaster Only stipulation, if I left that off, I could hand the thing off to the party fighter, cleric or rogue and let them have as much fun blasting enemies as I have. Not going to happen. I might lower the percentage discount, but not remove the limitation.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Just my 2 cents, but an Item Granting Speech already exists for 600gp.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Just my 2 cents, but an Item Granting Speech already exists for 600gp.

Which is overpriced for simply a speech item--note that it does more than simply let you speak a language.