Using Immortals Handbook AND d20 Future

[Deinos]

Hey all. So, having been a long time IH fan, I've finally started running a campaign which will incorporate both Immortals Handbook and d20 past, modern, and future content... the latter 3 are in terms of equipment only.

After converting things like mechs and starships to GPs, the math seems largely appropriate... for instance, a level 40 character would on average have enough GP to purchase a single Progress Level 8 colossal mecha like the Final Judge or the Paragon.

The campaign I am running features the concept that as time goes on, so will technology. The bulk of elapsed time will probably first occur when the characters start hitting level 30-40 and the item crafting times start stretching onto the years and years. This will also give them a chance for aperture farms to start really picking up and worshiper populations to start increasing, so that they can also become at least hero deities.

Anyway, has anyone used tech in an IH game and how'd it work?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all.

Hey there Deinos!

So, having been a long time IH fan, I've finally started running a campaign which will incorporate both Immortals Handbook and d20 past, modern, and future content... the latter 3 are in terms of equipment only.

Cool.

After converting things like mechs and starships to GPs, the math seems largely appropriate... for instance, a level 40 character would on average have enough GP to purchase a single Progress Level 8 colossal mecha like the Final Judge or the Paragon.

Progress Levels should go higher than 8. I hypothesised at least 12 for the universe itself, with more for higher dimensions.

The campaign I am running features the concept that as time goes on, so will technology. The bulk of elapsed time will probably first occur when the characters start hitting level 30-40 and the item crafting times start stretching onto the years and years. This will also give them a chance for aperture farms to start really picking up and worshiper populations to start increasing, so that they can also become at least hero deities.

Anyway, has anyone used tech in an IH game and how'd it work?

While it wasn't strictly in an IH game (since it was pre-IH) we have used a number of either Modern or Future vs. Immortals scenarios. Including Godly realms being invaded by Powered Armoured Cyborgs from Earth 2020 (Cyberpunk setting). Gods vs. Tanks and Helicopter Gunships.

I think the key is sort of just balancing the damage of the antagonists.

For instance if you want to set up a Modern SWAT Team vs. Immortal scenario just set it on a high physical factor world and make sure the weapons can hurt the deity.

If you are worried of the SWAT guys' levels being too low, just give their weapons bonuses to hit for things like target scope, laser sights and so forth.

I remember one time my immortal character (allied to British SAS) teleported into an ambush with a bunch of Russian Cyber-Mercs. If you have ever watched the Bathhouse Scene in the movie "The Rock" basically we were trapped in a killing zone.

So even if you want to have deities in Modern settings it can still be a dangerous environment.

 

[Deinos]

Hey UK! Its a pleasure to talk to you.

Progress levels beyond the ninth? Hmmm. Assuming that you agree with the usual assessment of PL 6 (Fusion Age), PL 7 (Gravity Age) and PL 8 (Fusion Age), how would you rate them, and would you agree in the assessment of PL 9 being people having basically nuclear power plants fit into a single piece of jewelry?

In particular, are you familiar with Total Annihilation or Supreme Commander? Its possible for the civilizations portrayed in them to send a single mech to another world, who can step out and immediately start using nanotech and that sort of thing to disassemble the environment and build up power plants and factories that spew forth entire armies in the span of an afternoon. What PL would you consider that to be?

I was not really sure how that sort of thing could be incorporated, even into an IH game, but then I recalled how with Create Legacy, you can seriously emerge into a town of 400 people, kill everyone within, and produce 8000 undead in an afternoon as well... but Create Spawn doesn't really give any guidelines as to whether you control your creations or not.

With Create Spawn and Create Legacy, do they just count against your undead control cap for Rebuke Undead, and do they start off controlled, or would you have to rebuke them each the round after they are "born?"

 

[Belzamus]

I can't answer, obviously, since I didn't design the abilities.

However, the Death portfolio allows you to auto-dominate any Undead in your Aura, which helps if you're the lead-by-example type.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey UK!

Hello again!

Its a pleasure to talk to you.

Thanks very much for the kind words.

Progress levels beyond the ninth? Hmmm. Assuming that you agree with the usual assessment of PL 6 (Fusion Age), PL 7 (Gravity Age) and PL 8 (Fusion Age), how would you rate them, and would you agree in the assessment of PL 9 being people having basically nuclear power plants fit into a single piece of jewelry?

I thought I must have had something on the website about them...

Immortality

...though very little.

I am sure I have them written down somewhere. I think you need one where its a Temporal Age and another where you can rewrite Reality.

In particular, are you familiar with Total Annihilation or Supreme Commander?

Only peripherally.

Its possible for the civilizations portrayed in them to send a single mech to another world, who can step out and immediately start using nanotech and that sort of thing to disassemble the environment and build up power plants and factories that spew forth entire armies in the span of an afternoon. What PL would you consider that to be?

Well I'd need to study the various progress levels, but I know that Star Wars has similar machines so I'd probably put that into the Star Wars Progress Level - which IIRC is about PL 8.

I was not really sure how that sort of thing could be incorporated, even into an IH game, but then I recalled how with Create Legacy, you can seriously emerge into a town of 400 people, kill everyone within, and produce 8000 undead in an afternoon as well... but Create Spawn doesn't really give any guidelines as to whether you control your creations or not.

Well it seemed to me that creation is one thing and control is another. Also it gives the option to create and not necessarily control.

With Create Spawn and Create Legacy, do they just count against your undead control cap for Rebuke Undead, and do they start off controlled, or would you have to rebuke them each the round after they are "born?"

They wouldn't necessarily start of controlled. That said I don't think they would attack their creator.

 

[Deinos]

So I've been thinking of this.

Should atomic and antimatter weapons be rebalanced to use the same rules as IH? What PL would atomic and antimatter grenades/missiles be possible at? (Other questions, like how to avoid blowing up the user as well, are irrelevant)

Presumably, robots, starships, and mechs, and so forth, should use densities as well... do you have any particular suggestions at which PLs we would see various densities and sizes for mechas & starships?

I'm working on my own conversions, but am quite interested in your thoughts on such things first.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

It's hard to come up with realistic levels for these things, as RL technology in the last 40 years or so has moved away from the big, flashy, high-energy stuff to computer-type stuff; transportation hasn't gotten significantly faster since 1970, certainly compared to 1970 vs. 1930 or 1930 vs. 1890; we don't have any power sources we didn't have in 1960.

 

[Deinos]

Well, in fd20 terms (which goes by a 0-9 PL, not the... 0-80 PL that UK's cosmology uses) the 30s through now are all PL 5, more or less.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

I always liked the idea that each Progress Level would have its own signature weapons, armour and so forth.

With each increase being a 50% (or staggered double over every two increases to Progress Levels) change in power.

2d6 - 3d6 - 4d6 - 6d6 - 8d6 - 12d6, etc.

So if a normal PL 5 pistol deals 2d6 damage, then the same size pistol at PL 9 would deal 8d6.

Then of course you have:

Pistol < Assault Rifle < Heavy Rifle < 25mm < 50mm < 100 mm cannon, etc.

So a 50mm cannon will deal 8d6.

So we know a PL 9 pistol is equivalent to a PL 5 50mm cannon.

Armours, same thing.

DR 15 - DR 20 - DR 30 - DR 40 - DR 60 - DR 80, etc.

For armour coverage have a reduction for things like vests.

Vest = bypassed on 18-20 d20 to hit result
Medium Armour = bypassed on 19-20
Heavy Armour = bypassed on 20
Encased (pressurised) Armour = full cover

Armour will always totally stop pistol damage of the same progress level.

Certain weapons might bypass armour altogether (meson accelerators), others might reduce its effectiveness, railguns, armour piercing rounds.

Meson Accel: Totally bypass armour, Damage = 3/4
Particle Accel: Armour 1/4, Damage = 3/4
Railgun/Gauss Gun: Armour 1/3, damage = 3/4
Armour Piercing Rounds: Armour 1/2, damage = 3/4

Something like that anyway.

 

[Deinos]

I thought I replied to this aeons ago when the world was young, but anyway...

I was working on more realistic(?) rules for robots and cyborgs using references to both fd20, IH:B and v5.pdf... I noticed that Fortress Ships (4500 HD) are indeed, coincidentially, of the size suggestions for macro-large (its a 10,900 long ship), so its interesting that some elements of d20 future hew to IH standards already.

Anyway, so there's that concept in v5.pdf of oversized(+1 step damage), prominent (+2 step), and dominant (+3 step, natural weapon that uses the whole body like a piercer... or bob-omb) appendages, so I thought, why not use that as a starting point? A robot made of the density of iron of human size deals about pistol damage with an oversized natural attack and about rifle damage with a prominent step weapon. So my damage guidelines started to resemble your damage-by-PL stuff.

I was thinking that you could use very similar stat blocks to refer to 3 fairly different sorts of entities: partial cyborgs, full cyborgs, and robots (or armatures). The stats then also vary based off hardness and density... in the first conversion I did, it seemed that while a simple iron (or alumisteel) robot or cyborg would have typically around 1-3 HD, a neutronite (not neutronium, just +5 densities) robot with nanofluidic armor would have 90 or so HD and a CR of 60 or so, and was largely inspired by the Terminatrix.