Using magic to make money

[Janx]

No. I've heard it mentioned but never seen it done.

The short version: I wouldn't allow it. If a player tried it as a casual venture (whether as a hedge mage, a healer for hire, a blacksmith, or whatever) they would find that the entrenched local interests cut them out of the business - only certified guild members can practice the trade. Becoming a certified guild member is possible, of course... by retiring the PC.

I disagree with your decision, for the same reason I support Bullgrit's "player opposed ear scam" story.

Since you said "casual venture" that to me defines it as a side plot between the main quest. Players should be encouraged to pursue personal goals, and as a casual venture, it's not like its taking serious time away.

If this was the PC refusing to do interesting adventure stuff for the sake of his full time job running a scam, then as Bullgrit's players decided, "this isn't fun for everyone"

In 2e, my retiring PC (who ran a kingdom) set up a manufacturing of Continual Light lamps, and other easy magic items. He created a merchant company to distibute. Which was really a front for his spy network. I never ran it to get rich, it was basically an idea to self-fund my spy network without needing to manage a budget for it.

 

[Pbartender]

I wonder: Has any PC actually used these spells to make money?

Absolutely... but only occasionally and always for purposes of supplementing spending cash. Never as a full-time business venture.

It's just rather boring to do for any length of time at the table.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

It has always been in the back of my head, while playing a [Spellcaster], that I could do this.

Usually, however (and because I play with friends), I go along with the GM's plans and go do [adventure].

It's always kinda-sorta bugged me that none of the NPC wizards - who, almost by definition, not off doing [adventure] - don't do this, though.

But I generally ignore that by covering it in some handwavium.

 

[SquareKnot]

I did this once in a AD&D game with an elven fighter/magic-user. I had somehow acquired a magic item that let me ask three questions each day and get highly cryptic answers. Usually it took all three questions to nail down anything useful or actionable, as the DM was a master at evading the intended question.

Our group started a business known as "Quest's End" from our small keep just outside a major city when we weren't away adventuring. NPCs would come to us for answers to various questions. We would tell them that we would "research the question" and get back to them in a week. Usually we were able to just ask the ball, collect the gold, and be done with it. We never really got rich off of this, but it did cover upkeep on our base and allowed us to buy a small ship. That was about it.

At DM selected dramatic moments, however, questions about the location of a missing loved one turned into rescue missions. Or a particularly important question would require that we check out the answer about that lost temple's inner sanctum before giving it to the NPC, to ensure that we were right (the answers were very cryptic). The local thieves guild tried to steal the item once, but we were able to do them a favor in exchange for immunity from their activities. The thieves didn't want to tell us who had hired them, but, yeah, think about it. Nine questions later we had his name and current whereabouts and paid him a visit. In a dark alley. And on and on.

Basically, the DM turned our business into the campaign. Good times, I tell you. Good times at the old Quest's End.

 

[Jack7]

Sorta similar to Squareknot and sorta different.

I had a magic user (he was my Character) back when I played AD&D who created money and gems and other valuables to be used for specific purposes.

My favorite use was this: there was a local guild who my party knew was backed by an influential and important individual or individuals. We also believed he had a secret lair or base, and that this base of operations was where the guild was funneling stolen items off victims.

So we had different reasons for wanting to infiltrate this Guild and whoever was behind them. We believed they were running a fencing operation that led to their base, we believed their hidden base was a base of operations for various other evil activities, and we believed that whoever was behind the Guild could eventually be made by locating this base.

So my magic-user created coins and gems that would eventually disappear. But until that time they looked and seemed like real coins and gems. We started buying things off locals who we knew would frequent local taverns and stores that were connected with the Guild. (By getting others to pass the coins and items we had less chance of being directly traced if anyone ever tried to trace the coins back to us.) Then once every couple of days, after dark and from our own stronghold and keep, my magic-user would use the coins to scry and spy upon whoever had them. In time the coins and items got circulated and we just followed the leads up the food chain until we learned of the location of the secret lair, and by this time we were pretty sure we knew who the individuals were behind the operation.

It wasn't quite true as something much larger was going on that we found out about later, that involved an artifact. But we were able to make our initial infiltrations by this simulacoinage, without endangering ourselves or having to run infiltration missions against various red herring targets. We used the "simulacoinage" like modern day bugging devices which would give us Intel and information on those we wanted to gather on. To my knowledge our targets never understood that we were tapping their operations or their money networks in this way.

But several times our characters overheard stories about the "vanishing gold" or "disappearing coins." Because after a few weeks the coins I had created would evaporate. And that is apparently what they set about investigating, not that the coins might be scrying devices, and that's what we hoped would happen.

So it all worked like a golden charm (pun intended).

so although we didn't create money for the sake of circulating the money, we did create money for the sake of circulating it among our enemies. And since few people ever stop to think about the money itself being a problem, it was a good disguise for our real aims. And we recouped very well (the costs for the money creation spell and materials was costly) because we took a good haul from the lair, the local noblemen also aped us well for the bust up on the Guild and the men behind it, and we had a good future method for infiltrating enemy networks.

By the way, later in life I got a real life reinvention outta this too. Ubiquitous items make good monitoring devices and few people ever think to check what they use every day.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

I've had a handful of people try this through the years. Most of them got shouted down by the other players. There was one guy that would try this no matter what we played. If we played Toon, he'd try to corner the market on funny money. He was a bit like Brian from Knights of the Dinner Table, except money was the only focus.

He had moved on before we played 3E, but it would have definitely have been a problem in that system. He was bad enough in 1E and other systems. It isn't so much what that kind of guy does, as that he is always trying something like that. So you can never completely relax.

 

[Janx]

I think there's a number of different angles on the topic of money making magic.

there's honest use of magic to make money and dishonest use. There's fulltime ventures and casual side-project ventures. There's also the question of volume of business.

On the dishonest side, the first time a PC tries it, I reckon it'll surprise me, and I'll let him make some money off it, unless he screws up. If he keeps trying it, like any crime, folks are going to notice, and that will increase the chance he gets caught. thus, there's a natural valve for that kind of thing.

If the player tries to make this a full time operation, if its where the party wants to go, then I'll make "the business" be what the game is about. And they can expect complications and challenges, because that's how I make it interesting. If it's just one player wanting to monopolize the game, he'll have to retire that PC until he decides to come back to adventuring. because I won't reward the forker with game time.

Casual ventures would get treated like any other side business a PC might have going on. The bulk of it goes on between sessions, with a little bit of it popping up during sessions.

Another factor to all this, is how much volume will there be. if the cleric is selling healing, how many injured people are there really? if the wizard is selling services, how often is he needed? if he's manufacturing items (continual light lamps) how many he can make a day is pretty deterministic (and does he get caught needing to adventure today, despite having just spent his slots casting the day's batch of lamps?

 

[Jack7]

I don't really see using magic to create money as a dishonest occupation in a setting in which magic is common, unless there are specific laws against it, or the money has lesser value than real coinage (or whatever is being used for "real money"). Then I imagine it could violate counterfeit laws.

But that would also potentially lead to very interesting adventures.

If it is not illegal then it seems to me the best way to handle the situation from a cultural point of view might be regulation (though that will certainly assure a black market), or a cooperative venture, and from a game point of view would be to make it costly. That is the magic would require materials and magical energy costs which still allow for a profit, but which greatly reduce the magical creation expenses from none to more expensive or exceptional.

I could even see governments employing "Magical Minters" especially in times of War, etc, or even minor noblemen attempting to increase their own treasury via the use of private magical minters. This might lead to something like a "Magical Minting War," which could be a very interesting campaign in and of itself. Especially if competitors fought hard to assure the safety or expansion of their own magical monetary systems. It might also be a rationale for suppressing magical minting, because the economic warfare and competition it fostered would be considered too dangerous to exploit if it erupted into continual states of war.

I think though the key to using this type of magic properly, so that it is both useful, and yet not uncontrollable, would be within the particular confines of the given setting.

 

[Jhaelen]

Sure, I've had players do this. I make sure they also get hit with fines and fees and have to deal with the local economy and all of the laws that businesses have to obey. And then when the tax men show up it gets really fun. By then they usually are willing to abandon the business at a loss and then go adventuring.

This.

As a DM you have complete control over the success (or lack thereof) of attempts to make money using magic. Usually, you'll want the attempt to backfire in some way, ideally leading them back to continue their adventuring career.

 

[CuRoi]

I had a player that wanted his PC to make a Holy Water vending machine for his own profit. Eventually I decided that the deity that imbued the item would be less than impressed - unless of course all profits went to the church.

I had players that discussed wanting to use a Druid's "Commune with Nature" ability to locate valuable natural resources to exploit them. I said fine and we started going about the plans. The teams they would need to retrieve the resources, a place to sell stuff, a vendors permit, marketing, labor, overhead, etc. etc. They decided risking their lives in adventuring for profit was more entertaining.