Using skills in combat

[bert1000]

I have read some threads debating the uses/timing of powers outside of combat, but haven't seen anything on using skills in combat.

Anyone who has glanced at the books in conventions know if 4e will discourage getting mechanical advantages from skills in combat? For example, you might think that someone highly trained in acrobatics could "shift" but my guess is that this will remain in the realm of powers.

 

[Blacksway]

We do know that 'Tumble' is now a feat, and not a skill check.

Other things physical activities not related to combat specifically (such as jump, climb or balance) are probably going to still be skill checks, but I suspect other things that used to be (bluff, tumble etc) might not be.

 

[deathdonut]

In general, there's no reason you can't use any of your skills in combat. That said, I don't believe that any of the skills are intended to be "combat skills".


Acrobatics isn't intended to be the new "tumble", but a creative description and successful check might allow a PC to grab a curtain and swing around behind a line of opponents without provoking OA's.

An athletics check would allow a PC to jump a trap as part of his movement action

Stealth allows a rogue who is not yet engaged to sneak through the battlefield and open up with combat advantage.

Perception will let your players notice the amulet that the Big Bad Guy grabs every time he heals himself.

Diplomacy might just stop the combat all together.


Despite all these uses, I would not consider any of these as combat skills.

 

[Dunamin]

We do know that 'Tumble' is now a feat, and not a skill check.

Nah, according to the Keep on the Shadowfell characters its a Rogue Utility 2 power.

 

[bert1000]

In general, there's no reason you can't use any of your skills in combat.

Definitely agree with this, but was curious if 4e RAW will encourage the DM to just go with the flow and assign a small mechanical benefit to a successful skill check that seems to fit the moment (what I always do) or be more perscriptive.

For instance, what does it mean to intimidate a foe while in combat now? From what I have read, seems like 4e will play much looser with skills (again, a good thing IMO), and not directly spell out the results of an intimidate check in combat. I'm fine with this, but it may get a little tricky if player's try to replicate some powers using skill checks.

 

[Stalker0]

For instance, what does it mean to intimidate a foe while in combat now? From what I have read, seems like 4e will play much looser with skills (again, a good thing IMO), and not directly spell out the results of an intimidate check in combat. I'm fine with this, but it may get a little tricky if player's try to replicate some powers using skill checks.

One of the major benefits of 4e's "new math" is that opposed checks work much better now. For example, your intimidate example. I can easily do an opposed intimidate vs will save now, because both of them scale about the same. If I'm trained in intimidate, I have a solid bonus that never goes away.

 

[med stud]

There was an example of a player that kicked a table on two orcs. The DM adjucated it as an Athletics-attack vs the orcs AC or Ref.

 

[bert1000]

There was an example of a player that kicked a table on two orcs. The DM adjucated it as an Athletics-attack vs the orcs AC or Ref.

Good example. So the mechanical effect of this could be:

1) orcs are knocked prone
2) orcs take some damage
3) orcs take some damage and are knocked prone
4) none of the above, but players gain combat advantage for one round against these orcs, 5) etc.

All of those seem like possible options for a DM, but at least at low levels these effects can be equal to or better than some encounter powers. So, just need to be careful. I'd like to see the kicked table thing once in a while, but not a default attack (no snide comments about not having tables in the room...).

Experienced DMs have been doing this for a awhile. Look forward to seeing the DMG guide advice section on this, however. Should be interesting.

 

[Serensius]

There was an example of a player that kicked a table on two orcs. The DM adjucated it as an Athletics-attack vs the orcs AC or Ref.

That is just so cool. Come 4th edition, I'll be pulling those kind of stunts left and right.

EDIT: And yeah, elegant mechanic and everything, can't wait to see it in game.