Utilities of Craft (Trapmaking)

[PolterGhost]

So I've been thinking about having a Sorcerer/Rogue (possibly Kobold) that would be using spells to augment trapmaking.

Would it be possibly to potentially create things like spell grenades and trapped arrows launched from bows with the trapmaking system (infusing them with such dirty spells as Fireball), and what would the feasibility be?

 

[Jhaelen]

Would it be possibly to potentially create things like spell grenades and trapped arrows launched from bows with the trapmaking system (infusing them with such dirty spells as Fireball), and what would the feasibility be?

Nope. You could do such things using Craft(Alchemy). But they're not traps (though they could be used as ammunition for traps). Traps are immobile constructions that do not require an action to trigger; as such they use fixed attack bonuses (unless they're auto-hit).

I'd also like to note that in D&D creating traps is not really worthwhile. They take an enormous amount of time and money to create and are rarely more than an annoyance against a threat of a similar level.

Having said that, in Dungeonscape there is a prestige class called 'Trapsmith', that focuses on creating impromptu traps during combat.

 

[jefgorbach]

Not only is it possible/feasible, the SRD provides a number of examples in the Trap section.

Your desired spell grenade is simply the Burning Hands trap applied to rock -- although personally, I recommend using a crossbow bolt with a trailing rope for increased range and easy retrieval. Its priced as an auto-reset repeating effect, so the cost for a single-use version would be 50gp, 4xp if that's your preference.

"Burning Hands Trap: CR 2; magic device; proximity trigger (alarm); automatic reset; spell effect (burning hands, 1st-level wizard, 1d4 fire, DC 11 Reflex save half damage); Search DC 26; Disable Device DC 26. Cost: 500 gp, 40 XP." Traps :: d20srd.org

While the SRD implies a creative 1st or 2nd level sorcerer/wizard could spell-trap an area, the true potential for traps requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat (3rd level requirement) for the development of trapped physical objects with the reset option.

Secondly, although the examples focus on using offensive spells to punish anyone violating the protected area, there's no reason the detector couldnt trigger a nonlethal or even helpful spell given gm approval.
ie: *. crossbowbot(wall of fire) behind the enemy to prevent retreat
*. crossbowbolt(light) to back-light the enemy ranks.
*. item(buff) w/touch or proximity trigger
*. item(curative) w/touch or proximity trigger
*. item(create food/water) triggered by touch to eliminate carrying rations


Im sure many more creative ideas will begin flowing in??

 

[Jhaelen]

Not only is it possible/feasible, the SRD provides a number of examples in the Trap section.

Well, either me or you have failed to interpret the question correctly, I think.

I thought the OP was asking about creating a 'trapped arrow' (or grenade-like throwing weapons) to be carried around in a quiver (or bag) and shot (or thrown) at the pc's leisure. That's definitely not governed by the trap rules.

Here's the intro on traps in the srd:

A trap can be either mechanical or magic in nature. Mechanical traps include pits, arrow traps, falling blocks, water-filled rooms, whirling blades, and anything else that depends on a mechanism to operate. A mechanical trap can be constructed by a PC through successful use of the Craft (trapmaking) skill (see Designing a Trap, below, and the skill description).

Every trap includes a 'location', i.e. they're not portable.

 

[jefgorbach]

Its true traditional mundane mechanical traps (arrow traps, falling blocks, pits, &etc) are fixed to a particular location, however the Trap section's next paragraph indicates "Magic traps are further divided into spell traps and magic device traps. Magic device traps initiate spell effects when activated, just as wands, rods, rings, and other magic items do. Creating a magic device trap requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat" (emphasis mine).

IOW magical traps are "located" within the object and triggered by some preselected external stimuli just as just as wands &etc. Moving that object does not disable/negate the trap because the triggering condition and resulting spell effect remain unchanged -- or are you saying wands, rods, rings, &etc are likewise NOT portable magical effects triggered by an external stimulus??

The essential difference is a magic device uses a command action/word to trigger the spell effect, whereas a magical device trap uses a detection spell.

The inherent danger being the trigger spell reacts independent of the user's desire ... so the aforementioned burning hands spell bolt triggered by detect evil will detonate within your quiver simply by passing close enough to the innocent-looking (secretly evil) little old lady walking nearby just as readily as being fired into a crowd of evil dungeon creatures.

 

[jefgorbach]

oops forgot the burninghands example was triggered by Alarm .... so the creator likely used the spell's Touch option since otherwise the object triggers every round a creature of Tiny or larger size besides the caster comes within 20' radius of the trapped object making it extremely dangerous to carry unless you travel solo without a familiar!

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Hmm.. I'll have to agree with Jhaelen on this one.

One thing that is assumed with traps is that there's a chance to detect and disable it. If a "trap" is affixed to the end of an arrow, how does the target get his chance to "search for traps" and subsequently disable it?

It also makes it unclear how hit rolls would work on a "trapped" weapon. Ordinarily, the attacker makes an attack roll which vary with all kinds of things: level, lighting, conditions on the character, range, etc. On the other hand, a trap typically has either static attack roll modifier or it forces a save. So when, frex, a Rgr5 fires an arrow with a CR10 trap on it, it's not clear how to resolve that attack: the ranger's stats? the trap's stats? something else?

That said, I can definitely see some utility in trapsmithing for a dungeon-delving PC-- but not without a fair bit of houseruling. For example, it might be appropriate to allow a trapsmith to, before an adventure, build little traps that can be carried, placed, and set quickly-- caltrops with effects (poison, stun, etc), landmines, razor tripwires, and so on. Such "prefabs" should be hazardous to carry and set/unset. They would also require a lot of rules-making, I suspect!

The trapsmith might get some ability to adapt an existing item into a passive "gotcha" mode. This could be applicable to some alchemical items, and possibly certain command-word wondrous items. For example, given a tanglefoot bag, he could try to rig it to function by itself if someone steps on it (ie, step in its square). But again, this requires a lot of house rules.

Of course the skill can also be used to make standard immobile traps. Most useful to the PC would be simple improvised traps like falling blocks, tripwires and pits, all of which would likely be relatively easy to find &/or disable. But with lots of time and cash, a character can build more elaborate traps, though that would be more appropriate for a stronghold than a dungeon crawl.

 

[jefgorbach]

Easy and no house-ruling involved: the trap remains an independent agent per normal. Most would simply be zero-damage “thrown splash weapons” placed using a ranged touch attack roll vs AC5 to hit a specific grid intersection, rolling 1d8 for misses per the SRD (Special Attacks :: d20srd.org). Likewise treat Frex’ arrow attack normally because the fact its trapped is irrelevant during his action.

Once in place, the foe have the same chance to detect/disable the newly placed trap the same as if both groups had entered the area unaware of the trap, with the trap’s detector spell triggering its effect on its iniative turn per normal.