Valindra Shadowmantle

[flametitan]

I don't know if Adamantine is as valuable as you suppose. Adamantine weapons are only +500 GP in value, and a lot of weapons would require 2+ ingots to work with. Adamantine Armour is an "uncommon" magic item, which means that it's worth only 1d6x100 GP (likely adding the value of the armour on top of that). So if Adamantine is as valuable as you suppose, adamantine crafters would be making a net loss on the goods they forge.

I'm getting the impression that the adventure writers were assuming you'd make adamantine weapons and armour out of them anyway, though. It's kind of like the doors in the Tomb of Horrors being made out of valuable metals; Gygax likely didn't expect players to remove them to sell for profit.

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't know if Adamantine is as valuable as you suppose. Adamantine weapons are only +500 GP in value, and a lot of weapons would require 2+ ingots to work with. Adamantine Armour is an "uncommon" magic item, which means that it's worth only 1d6x100 GP (likely adding the value of the armour on top of that). So if Adamantine is as valuable as you suppose, adamantine crafters would be making a net loss on the goods they forge.

Heh. Have you learned nothing, compadre?

Even if we lower the value of adamantine to only one fifth, and say the pool is only 1 foot deep, the metal would still be worth 1/25th of the number I provided.

That number is still 150000 sp.

It's kind of like the doors in the Tomb of Horrors being made out of valuable metals; Gygax likely didn't expect players to remove them to sell for profit.

Exactly my point.

Now it's easy to say the doors (or whatever) are only covered by copper or gold or whatever, but it's still a trap you can fall into as a DM. Better for the adventure writer to anticipate these things.

Regards,

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Another WTF moment from Tomb of Annihilation:

Neither of those are WTF moments.

 

[Parmandur]

Heh. Have you learned nothing, compadre?

Even if we lower the value of adamantine to only one fifth, and say the pool is only 1 foot deep, the metal would still be worth 1/25th of the number I provided.

That number is still 150000 sp.


Exactly my point.

Now it's easy to say the doors (or whatever) are only covered by copper or gold or whatever, but it's still a trap you can fall into as a DM. Better for the adventure writer to anticipate these things.

Regards,

But isn't that adventuring in Chult leads to the potential for ludicrous wealth? And since wealth isn't a major factor in 5E design, why would the designers worry overmuch about it...?

 

[Tyler Penrod]

Heh. Have you learned nothing, compadre?

Even if we lower the value of adamantine to only one fifth, and say the pool is only 1 foot deep, the metal would still be worth 1/25th of the number I provided.

That number is still 150000 sp.


Exactly my point.

Now it's easy to say the doors (or whatever) are only covered by copper or gold or whatever, but it's still a trap you can fall into as a DM. Better for the adventure writer to anticipate these things.

Regards,

You also have the fun problem of getting all that Adamantine out of the mine, through the jungles of chult, and back to Port Nyanzaru. Then, without raising any suspicion of the Zhentarim or other factions that might want said wealth, get a ship to transport it out, and carry it back to wherever you came from ( or I suppose, teleport it out ), while you are on a ticking clock of the Solmonger. Or you could leave it for after, still with the same problem.

Essentially it is a reward that creates a whole new set of problems and adventure to earn, and assuming you make it out with it, then yeah, you have a lot of wealth to either A) Craft Adamantine weapons/armor or B) Find a buyer and then exchange that wealth for either equivalent magic items or maybe buy a keep or something.

I don't really see any of this as an issue.

 

[CapnZapp]

All that adamantine?

Remember, there's a forge - right there. Once you've purified the adamantium (or electrum in my case) it's just a matter of smelting trade bars and carry them to Port Nyanzaru. There you spend them. Gold, Silver, Electrum, Adamantium, shouldn't matter. Sure, you don't buy a beer with a trade bar. But PN is a large city. Suggesting they refuse trade bars would be preposterous. If you want to roleplay administration, taxes and customs, knock yourself out. Me, I prefer to simply handle it like any other loot - like jewels or artwork. It's a gold piece value.

If there's nothing to buy, fine. For me however, that would be the real bummer. And lots of D&D groups like there to be magic items to purchase for gold.

Here's what I had created already - previous to reading up on the Hrakhamar text.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...he-many-and-fabulous-bazaars-of-Port-Nyanzaru

And I mean really read up on. Hadn't I caught the WTFOMGBBQ levels of silliness of the original description, the characters could have bought every single item on my list, with change to spare.

It would have wrecked the campaign.

Now, I don't think the author intended any of this. I don't even think he went "oh why bother, there's no magic item economy in the game anyway".

I simply think he was utterly oblivious to the consequences of what he wrote. You don't leave low- to mid-level characters with millions in wealth unless there's been an oversight. Again, it's easy to just describe the forge without realizing exactly how much that molten metal must weigh.

Describing the vault as containing "thousands of ingots" without specifying that only goes for the iron bars, and relying on a puny NPC to stand between your usual murderhoboes and Monty Hall levels of wealth I have a harder time forgiving.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You also have the fun problem of getting all that Adamantine out of the mine, through the jungles of chult, and back to Port Nyanzaru. Then, without raising any suspicion of the Zhentarim or other factions that might want said wealth, get a ship to transport it out, and carry it back to wherever you came from ( or I suppose, teleport it out ), while you are on a ticking clock of the Solmonger. Or you could leave it for after, still with the same problem.

Essentially it is a reward that creates a whole new set of problems and adventure to earn, and assuming you make it out with it, then yeah, you have a lot of wealth to either A) Craft Adamantine weapons/armor or B) Find a buyer and then exchange that wealth for either equivalent magic items or maybe buy a keep or something.

I don't really see any of this as an issue.

Exactly. They want it, they can have it. If they steal or kill for it there will be consequences sooner or later, if they somehow bargain for it they won’t be getting all of it, and if they somehow do get, and keep, all of it, they will have bloody well earned it.

If that means that money isn’t a major driver for adventure anymore in that campaign, excellent! I’ve never met an itchy that lost the itch just because they got rich.

 

[Parmandur]

All that adamantine?

Remember, there's a forge - right there. Once you've purified the adamantium (or electrum in my case) it's just a matter of smelting trade bars and carry them to Port Nyanzaru. There you spend them. Gold, Silver, Electrum, Adamantium, shouldn't matter. Sure, you don't buy a beer with a trade bar. But PN is a large city. Suggesting they refuse trade bars would be preposterous. If you want to roleplay administration, taxes and customs, knock yourself out. Me, I prefer to simply handle it like any other loot - like jewels or artwork. It's a gold piece value.

If there's nothing to buy, fine. For me however, that would be the real bummer. And lots of D&D groups like there to be magic items to purchase for gold.

Here's what I had created already - previous to reading up on the Hrakhamar text.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...he-many-and-fabulous-bazaars-of-Port-Nyanzaru

And I mean really read up on. Hadn't I caught the WTFOMGBBQ levels of silliness of the original description, the characters could have bought every single item on my list, with change to spare.

It would have wrecked the campaign.

Now, I don't think the author intended any of this. I don't even think he went "oh why bother, there's no magic item economy in the game anyway".

I simply think he was utterly oblivious to the consequences of what he wrote. You don't leave low- to mid-level characters with millions in wealth unless there's been an oversight. Again, it's easy to just describe the forge without realizing exactly how much that molten metal must weigh.

Describing the vault as containing "thousands of ingots" without specifying that only goes for the iron bars, and relying on a puny NPC to stand between your usual murderhoboes and Monty Hall levels of wealth I have a harder time forgiving.

What you are describing doesn't sound like the behavior of "usual" murderhobos. That NPC part is meant to keep the ungodly wealth out of the hands of non-evil PCs, and WotC specifically doesn't support evil players in their material. And again, becoming ludicrously over-the-top wealthy is a feature, not a bug: the adventurers still have motivation to stop the evil plot, because the death curse will not be good for high level, high rolling PCs.

 

[CapnZapp]

That NPC part is meant to keep the ungodly wealth out of the hands of non-evil PCs, and WotC specifically doesn't support evil players in their material.

You're taking the murder part of a murder-hobo far too literally.

You certainly don't need to kill the NPCs.

For any campaign where a few tens of thousands of gold pieces can get you the gear you want, it's much preferable to assume any loot the party can take, they will take.

You don't leave a million GP lying around in a D&D adventure for single-digit level parties. That's like adventure writing 101!



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Parmandur]

You're taking the murder part of a murder-hobo far too literally.

You certainly don't need to kill the NPCs.

For any campaign where a few tens of thousands of gold pieces can get you the gear you want, it's much preferable to assume any loot the party can take, they will take.

You don't leave a million GP lying around in a D&D adventure for single-digit level parties. That's like adventure writing 101!



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

It really isn't lying around: there massive story and logistical hurdles, and barely anybody is likely to think along those lines: still a feature, not a bug.