Vampires: Alternate form and energy drain?

[ChimericDream]

As I'm reading the vampire's energy drain ability, it specifies that if the vamp hits with a slam attack the target takes the negative levels. Since the vamp loses its slam when it is in alternate form, does it lose the ability to dish out negative levels to its enemies? My inclination is to say yes, but this could wind up being a major battle for my party (read: near impossible battle that will hopefully be climactic whether the PCs win or it's a TPK).

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sejs]

Living creatures hit by a vampire’s slam attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess)...

Batpires and Wolfpires can still drain.

Vampire in bat form + swarm of bats = omg.

 

[Sejs]

whether the PCs win or it's a TPK).

Then again, when you're talking about vampires, TPK doesn't necessarily mean game over.

 

[ChimericDream]

Living creatures hit by a vampire’s slam attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess)...

Interesting.... the stat block in the adventure I was reading didn't have the second part of this line. My primary reason for asking is that I really like wolves and dire wolves. I've found that improved trip has a tendency to greatly affect the outcome of battles.

As for the TPK not being game over, this is certainly true. If the entire party becomes vampires, I might let them simply continue and reattempt to kill the baddie... at that point, they'd actually have a pretty good chance, considering many of the enemy's special abilities wouldn't work on them anymore.

 

[kreynolds]

If the entire party becomes vampires, I might let them simply continue and reattempt to kill the baddie...

Of course, they would be enslaved to the vampire that killed them, so not sure how effective they would be, if at all, at taking direct action against the BBEG. On the other hand, it could be interesting to see a group of players try to stear another group of heroes into killing their master.

 

[robberbaron]

If the BB vamp slammed them to death they would be Vamp Spawn and NPCs. Can't see the bad bloodsucker taking the time to drain them all to death.

 

[Sejs]

If the BB vamp slammed them to death they would be Vamp Spawn and NPCs. Can't see the bad bloodsucker taking the time to drain them all to death.

Beat 'em into unconsciousness, then make with the bloodsucking.

Waste not want not, after all.

 

[Random Axe]

Living creatures hit by a vampire’s slam attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess)...

Batpires and Wolfpires can still drain.

Vampire in bat form + swarm of bats = omg.

The way I read those rules, Batpires and Wolfpires could NOT have an energy drain effect with their natural attack. "Any other natural weapon the vampire might possess" refers to the fact that the vampire is a template that can be overlaid on any other creature. Therefore if the vampire's natural form is a creature that has a natural weapon (but not necessarily fists) then that natural attack carries the energy drain ability. But once it turns to Direwolf, the Vamwolf loses its drain when it bites or claws.

 

[phindar]

Of course, they would be enslaved to the vampire that killed them, so not sure how effective they would be, if at all, at taking direct action against the BBEG. On the other hand, it could be interesting to see a group of players try to stear another group of heroes into killing their master.

I say have them enslaved, handwave a thousand years of brutally evil murderous servitude (Angel: I offered ugly death to everyone I met and I did it with a song in my heart.) and then have them reawaken when their master is slain by-- well, whatever you want. I mean, thats a radically different campaign concept than the one you were likely going for, but eh, why not?

I think having the party being the spawn of a powerful vampire would be interesting, but it'd be a fine line to walk since the characters wouldn't have free will unless the master vampire let them go or was killed. I'm big on player freedom, but I think something like that could work if the Master Vampire wasn't on camera that much. The pcs in the meantime would be forming their own little vampire coteries (to use a V:TM term), marshalling real world power, working towards their Master's goals and their own as well. Sort of a reverse Ravenloft or as part of a vampires take over the world type of thing. Its not a totally unworkable idea for a campaign.

Although, I'd be tempted to add in some lycanthrope characters, and half-fiends, and half-golems. I mean, if you're going to make a monster party, make a monster party.