D&D 5E Vampiric Touch Opportunity Attack Ruling?

[MG.0]

Vampiric touch doesn't have you specify a hand. There's no reason the caster can't switch which hand he uses to drain each round. The caster could not channel the power of vampiric drain through his hand while grappling with it any more than he could punch the target while grappling with it at the same time. Both punching and vampiric touch require a melee attack. There's no reason the caster couldn't maintain concentration on the spell though, no matter whether he is grappling or not.

 

[MG.0]

well to be clear the magic user has to ready the spell and hold it and then grapple. However I would say that the magic user would have to pick if he wants to keep concentrating on the spell, use the spell on the target or grapple it. I don't think the intended game design is to do all 3 at the same time, with the same hand.

I think the assumption was the spell was already cast and this is a subsequent round where the caster is merely maintaining concentration. If he held an action to cast the spell, he wouldn't be able to grapple in the same turn...that's two actions.

 

[Khashir]

Let's look:
The words "on your turn" aren't meant as a restriction anymore than on page 192 of the PHB where it says under the section on Actions In Combat "When you take your action on your turn...". Opportunity attacks allow melee attacks in response to a target moving away. The spell grants you a melee attack, therefore the spell can be used for an opportunity attack.

Indeed, let's look: the spell grants you a melee attack and specifies the conditions under which you can use said attack. You're wrong about the laxity of the restrictions: it's precisely because you can't take Actions outside your turn that PHB 192 is written that way. You can only take reactions, or resolve a Ready Action (which you took on your turn), if it triggers.

The thing is, you've conflated two questions:

1. Can I do X according to the rules? (X = repeat the VT attack as an OA)
2. Can I do X in my game?

Since the OP explicitly said he's looking for a "solid ruling," he's clearly asking the first question, while you're answering the second (hint: the answer to the second, regardless what X is, is always "yes, so long as your GM allows it.") Further, answering the first actually requires knowing the rules (which leads me to calling out BS on your part: you were derogatory towards people concerned with the rules, since you opened a reply saying "No one likes a rules lawyer.")

The rules provide structure and balance to the game: Rule 0 is the first, of course, but that doesn't trivialize discussing what the rest of the rules allow. Otherwise, WotC wouldn't bother developing them, and just provide fluff and allow a free for all. Many of the rules that seem most arbitrary are precisely to promote balance/bounded accuracy. (I recall a post by a GM

"I tend to judge [rule-bending] based on "are they doing it because it's cool, or because they're sneaking an extra attack in?". Cool gets a nod, power-gaming gets a "nice try".")

Here's an informative/insightful post on not focusing on the rules. Perfectly legitimate style of play, not what the OP asked.

And that's the last bit of time I waste on this thread...

 

[MG.0]

Indeed, let's look: the spell grants you a melee attack and specifies the conditions under which you can use said attack. You're wrong about the laxity of the restrictions: it's precisely because you can't take Actions outside your turn that PHB 192 is written that way. You can only take reactions, or resolve a Ready Action (which you took on your turn), if it triggers.

You are wrong. Opportunity attacks allow you to take melee attack actions outside your turn. This is despite the rules for actions in combat saying you take actions on your turn, exactly like the rules in the vampiric touch spell description states.

The thing is, you've conflated two questions:

1. Can I do X according to the rules? (X = repeat the VT attack as an OA)
2. Can I do X in my game?

You are wrong again.

Since the OP explicitly said he's looking for a "solid ruling," he's clearly asking the first question, while you're answering the second

Wrong yet again.

Further, answering the first actually requires knowing the rules (which leads me to calling out BS on your part: you were derogatory towards people concerned with the rules, since you opened a reply saying "No one likes a rules lawyer.")

Wrong again, and your implication that people who don't share your interpretation don't understand the rules is the BS in this thread.

The rules provide structure and balance to the game: Rule 0 is the first, of course, but that doesn't trivialize discussing what the rest of the rules allow. Otherwise, WotC wouldn't bother developing them, and just provide fluff and allow a free for all. Many of the rules that seem most arbitrary are precisely to promote balance/bounded accuracy.

Still arbitrary.

And that's the last bit of time I waste on this thread...

Goodbye.

 

[Noctem]

Simply saying someone is wrong over and over doesn't actually make them wrong...

 

[spectacle]

You are wrong. Opportunity attacks allow you to take melee attack actions outside your turn. This is despite the rules for actions in combat saying you take actions on your turn, exactly like the rules in the vampiric touch spell description states.

"melee attack" is not an action, it is just an attack. Some actions such as the Attack action and the Opportunity Attack reaction let you make melee attacks, but that doesn't make the attack itself an action.

(WoTC resusing the word "attack" for both the attacks themselves and the Attack action has caused a lot of confusion, as has the basic action is just called "Action" instead of "Standard Action" or something like to more clearly separate it from reactions and bonus actions.

 

[MindxKiller]

You are wrong. Opportunity attacks allow you to take melee attack actions outside your turn. This is despite the rules for actions in combat saying you take actions on your turn, exactly like the rules in the vampiric touch spell description states.

Incorrect, Opportunity Attacks allow you to make a single melee attack as a Reaction, they in no way shape or form are Actions. You can only take Actions on your own turn, even readying an attack is forgoing your Action to instead use a Reaction later on. You might want to check the rules. Also, arbitrary doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

 

[Noctem]

Incorrect, Opportunity Attacks allow you to make a single melee attack as a Reaction, they in no way shape or form are Actions. You can only take Actions on your own turn, even readying an attack is forgoing your Action to instead use a Reaction later on. You might want to check the rules. Also, arbitrary doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

Correct on all counts.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Having finally gotten a look at the books, the answer to this is no, you cannot make an OA with VT.

The reasoning is this:
The spell grants you the ability to take an action to make a melee spell attack and inflict damage so long as the spell is up. It does not grant you a MSA, not does it say that you can make the MSA during an attack action, it literally gives you a new action option while the spell is up, and that action is to make an MSA using VT.

Since the spell does not grant you a MSA, but a new action option, then the MSA isn't available for you to make an OA with, because you don't have an MSA to make the OA. You only have a new option for your action.

This also addresses nicely the grapple issue, as there isn't an 'enchanted hand with which you touch people and they take damage', instead you have an new action option. So unless you take an action an use that option, VT doesn't interact at all. You can grapple all you like with your nice claw hand, but it doesn't ever do anything special unless you take the specific action that allows it to do something.

Short form: VT doesn't grant a MSA, it grants a new action option that allows an MSA only within that action. You have no MSA outside of that action option to make opportunity attacks with or super awesome auto-damage grapples. You have to take the action to get the MSA.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Simply saying someone is wrong over and over doesn't actually make them wrong...

Quoted for posterity.

Mod Note: That's enough! You were warned to stop butting heads. Carrying the point into other threads is about the exact opposite. Cut it out. ~Umbran