Variant Elemental Cosmology
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Can't add a map right now, but here are some "illustrations"
First, picture a normal 3d sphere:
Now, imagine an infinite row of normal 3d spheres:
Each 3d sphere is the cross-section of a higher dimension object -- in this case, a 4d hypercylinder.
Imagine being able to turn in a certain way, and when you turn that way, you step across spheres instead of stepping across points on a single sphere. Clearly, a point on sphere N is also touching that point on sphere N+1 and N-1, so if you're in a forrest, you're going to see forrest even when you turn.
When you turn in this simple 4d world, you perceive yourself to be on a normal 3d cylinder. The length of the cylinder is the infinite row of 3d spheres. When you un-turn, you will be on a normal 3d sphere.
Does this make sense so far? If so, I'll keep going to 5d
-- Nifft
First, picture a normal 3d sphere:
Code:
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o
[/color]Now, imagine an infinite row of normal 3d spheres:
Code:
[color=white]
...ooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
[/color]Each 3d sphere is the cross-section of a higher dimension object -- in this case, a 4d hypercylinder.
Imagine being able to turn in a certain way, and when you turn that way, you step across spheres instead of stepping across points on a single sphere. Clearly, a point on sphere N is also touching that point on sphere N+1 and N-1, so if you're in a forrest, you're going to see forrest even when you turn.
When you turn in this simple 4d world, you perceive yourself to be on a normal 3d cylinder. The length of the cylinder is the infinite row of 3d spheres. When you un-turn, you will be on a normal 3d sphere.
Does this make sense so far? If so, I'll keep going to 5d
-- Nifft
Moonsword
First Post
Okaaay... That makes sense. I can't picture it in my head, but it does make sense. I think. I hate multi-dimension physics and geometry like that. The basis of it is that 2D is a representation of 3d w/o depth, and then 3D is a representation of a 4-dimensional object. Each sphere is part of the fourth-dimensional object, and is a cross-section. The same holds true whether the 4th dimension is time or some form of 'spatial' dimension. In temporal interpratations, the cross-section is of a given time. In spatial, the cross-section is one part of a larger whole, maybe alternate realities.
The problem is, the human mind can only think in three dimensions normally, in standard terms. To see anything, or imagine it in normal terms, most human minds have to break it down into three dimensions. Unfortunately, higher-order dimensional representations don't break down that way very well, and so, most people have to work with it through metaphor.
I'm familiar with the subject, I just don't like it. What was making my head spin was that I had no real way to track what element related to what, and how. It just didn't make much sense to me. I could figure it out, given time, but you really do need to give a visual representation of something like that, even if it is only a graph. That will let people understand what they're looking at much faster. It will also make quick reference far easier.
The problem is, the human mind can only think in three dimensions normally, in standard terms. To see anything, or imagine it in normal terms, most human minds have to break it down into three dimensions. Unfortunately, higher-order dimensional representations don't break down that way very well, and so, most people have to work with it through metaphor.
I'm familiar with the subject, I just don't like it. What was making my head spin was that I had no real way to track what element related to what, and how. It just didn't make much sense to me. I could figure it out, given time, but you really do need to give a visual representation of something like that, even if it is only a graph. That will let people understand what they're looking at much faster. It will also make quick reference far easier.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
I will make a graph. In the mean time, this may help:
Picture a sphere of Earth. Above the Earth is Air (in various sub-forms, which will be enumerated shortly). Above the Air is Ice, and beyond the Ice is the Void.
Draw the Earth as a circle.
Upon the earth -- taking up about 1/3 of its surface -- is Wood. This Wood extends deep into the Earth, and rises as high as to scrape the Ice far above.
"Behind" the Wood -- in my mental picture, to the left of the Wood -- is a gigantic Fire. This Fire burns the Wood. It extends from a little below the surface of the Earth to the Ice above, since it burns all of the Wood that it touches. Fire will take up about 1/6 of the circle's surface.
Behind the Fire, you will get Ash, which will take up about 1/6 of the circle's surface.
What eats Ash, since Ash is a mish-mosh of metal, simple carbons, rock and inorganic poisons? Very simple but highly acidic creatures, which we'll call Ooze. Ooze will take up about 1/3 of the circle's surface, and will include deep oceans. which are not covered by plant life.
Finally, the Oozes are fed upon by more complex plant life -- specifically, Wood.
This is the "Circle of Life" for my Elemental Cosmography.
Above this circle is the atmosphere, which is subdivided into Storm (above Fire, Ash and half of Ooze) and Air (the rest of the atmosphere).
I will make a picture, but is this clearer?
-- Nifft
Picture a sphere of Earth. Above the Earth is Air (in various sub-forms, which will be enumerated shortly). Above the Air is Ice, and beyond the Ice is the Void.
Draw the Earth as a circle.
Upon the earth -- taking up about 1/3 of its surface -- is Wood. This Wood extends deep into the Earth, and rises as high as to scrape the Ice far above.
"Behind" the Wood -- in my mental picture, to the left of the Wood -- is a gigantic Fire. This Fire burns the Wood. It extends from a little below the surface of the Earth to the Ice above, since it burns all of the Wood that it touches. Fire will take up about 1/6 of the circle's surface.
Behind the Fire, you will get Ash, which will take up about 1/6 of the circle's surface.
What eats Ash, since Ash is a mish-mosh of metal, simple carbons, rock and inorganic poisons? Very simple but highly acidic creatures, which we'll call Ooze. Ooze will take up about 1/3 of the circle's surface, and will include deep oceans. which are not covered by plant life.
Finally, the Oozes are fed upon by more complex plant life -- specifically, Wood.
This is the "Circle of Life" for my Elemental Cosmography.
Above this circle is the atmosphere, which is subdivided into Storm (above Fire, Ash and half of Ooze) and Air (the rest of the atmosphere).
I will make a picture, but is this clearer?
-- Nifft
Khorod
First Post
That made it much clearer.
Is Elemental Water in those oceans mentioned with Ooze?
This arrangement really makes it possible to see a material plane as a shadow of the elemental planes. It just seems cooler the more I understand of what you're doing.
Aside from elementals of various types, do you picture any other creatures dwelling in this environment?
P.S. Wouldn't an Ooze Elemental just be an Ooze? I mean, you can't get more elemental than that...
Is Elemental Water in those oceans mentioned with Ooze?
This arrangement really makes it possible to see a material plane as a shadow of the elemental planes. It just seems cooler the more I understand of what you're doing.
Aside from elementals of various types, do you picture any other creatures dwelling in this environment?
P.S. Wouldn't an Ooze Elemental just be an Ooze? I mean, you can't get more elemental than that...
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Khorod said:
Glad it's clearer.
Elemental Water is partly in the Ooze area, partly in the Wood area (under epic-sized mangroves and island-sized lotus blossoms), and partly in the rain and mist which occurs everywhere outside of Fire and Ash.
Don't use the word "Shadow" just yet -- wait till you see how they fit in to all this
I picture TONS of other critters living in this environment. Since the world is inherently 5d, all "natives" will be hexapodal -- at least four legs and two arms. Centuars, Bariaurs, Dragons (4 legs + 2 wings = 6 limbs), Arrowhawks, Basalisks, Behir, Chuul, Displacer Beasts, Girallons, Hippogriffs, Lamias, Lammasu, Manticores, Mephits (of course), Phase Spiders, Rasts, Rust Monsters, Stirges, Thoqqua, Treants, and Xorn are good examples with obvious elemental preferences.
The class of creature "Oozes" are like Treants -- they're very comfortable in ONE element only, but they're very comfortable there. They are not "Ooze Elementals" any more than Treants are "Wood Elementals".
-- Nifft
Khorod
First Post
Non-elemental creatures on the elem planes has always bothered me. Are you setting these planes up as a strange campaign setting on their own accord?
I challenge you to describe an Ooze Elemental. A treant might not be a Wood elemental- its far to evolved and structured to be elemental that way. But Ooze is ooze. How do you get oozier?
I challenge you to describe an Ooze Elemental. A treant might not be a Wood elemental- its far to evolved and structured to be elemental that way. But Ooze is ooze. How do you get oozier?
Nifft
Penguin Herder
The way I've pictured it, Elemental Spirits take the form of the Element which they're in. So a Wood Elemental creature will eventually burn, and become a Fire Elemental creature. Then, it will go out, and become an Ash, Smoke or Storm Elemental creature.
Wood -> Fire
Fire -> Storm, Ash, Smoke
Ash -> Ooze
Ooze -> Water, Wood
Storm -> Air, Water
Smoke -> Storm, Air, Ooze
Air -> Storm, Wood
Water -> Wood
(This process occurs slowly -- if you burn an Elemental Wood creature, it effectively dies.)
As to other creatures living in the Elemental Planes, hey -- life will go WHEREVER it can go to live. Since these Elemental Planes are very hospitable -- what with having uniform objective gravity, an atmosphere and a lot of yummy Wood to eat, I can't imagine that creatures won't either evolve there or find their way there from the Prime.
Now, what's more oozy than an ooze? Not much. But Elemental Ooze is about eating the bones of flame -- twisted skeletons of metal, gem, ash and inorganic poisons -- while most Prime oozes are centered on eating organic stuff. These Prime oozes are happier near the border of Wood, where they can munch on organic stuff.
-- Nifft
Wood -> Fire
Fire -> Storm, Ash, Smoke
Ash -> Ooze
Ooze -> Water, Wood
Storm -> Air, Water
Smoke -> Storm, Air, Ooze
Air -> Storm, Wood
Water -> Wood
(This process occurs slowly -- if you burn an Elemental Wood creature, it effectively dies.)
As to other creatures living in the Elemental Planes, hey -- life will go WHEREVER it can go to live. Since these Elemental Planes are very hospitable -- what with having uniform objective gravity, an atmosphere and a lot of yummy Wood to eat, I can't imagine that creatures won't either evolve there or find their way there from the Prime.
Now, what's more oozy than an ooze? Not much. But Elemental Ooze is about eating the bones of flame -- twisted skeletons of metal, gem, ash and inorganic poisons -- while most Prime oozes are centered on eating organic stuff. These Prime oozes are happier near the border of Wood, where they can munch on organic stuff.
-- Nifft
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