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D&D 4E Video Review of the 4E D&D Website

ShadowDenizen

Explorer
I've noticed the majority of people who seem to be bashing the site are web design folks.

I'm part of the minority in this thread apparently; I'm not a Web Designer, and while I'm reasonably tech-savvy, I don't fancy myself as being as knowledgable in that area as many folks 'round ENWorld.

AND I've never played WoW or been to their website, so I'm not gonna make any comparisons.

What I do know is that the D+D website is awfully hard to navigate, and is visually NOT enticing to anyone I personally know, and that includes about a dozen current gamers, half-as-many friends and relatives I wanted to introduce the game to for the first time, and a handful of people who were thinking of coming back to the fold after many years away.

NOW is the time for Wizards to make us go "WOW!" with their online presence, and show that they're truly committed to the digital aspect, especially since they're touting it as a cornerstone of the 4E experience. No-one I know would pony up the $$$ for Gleemax and the DDI with what we've seen so far. (Not to mention TSR/Wizards abysmal track record with regards to online efforts.)

I think the fairground analogy made by Scribble is an apt one. MAYBE the site will improve overnight once 4E is out, but how many potential buyers will they have lost in the interim?

I'm sorry if this seems a bit harsh; even though I'm not personally up for 4E, I'd like to see the hobby flourish, and Wizards really is shooting themselves in the foot with this, IMHO.
 

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AllisterH

First Post
When people say Flashy, it gives me some concerns since honestly, I've never seen a website that makes me go "WoW".

Really, is there a corporate website that you guys are impressed with, yet at the same time works on al browsers?

As for WOTC's website, I think someone earlier in the thread said it best, there doesn't seem to be any method to the madness and WOTC does have a lot of content...

(I'm wondering, is the WOTC webteam responsible for the ENTIRE WOTC web site? Going through the list of games WOTC produces and that's a lot of content to keep track of, moreso than even WoW's website...

How much does Hasbro/WOTC allocate to that team I wonder? Probably not enough..
 

Moonshade

First Post
The Eternal GM said:
So why now to bitch about it? It's been up for years! Why is it so important to inspect the ghost town? If in a years time it's still in this state, fair enough... Feel free to mock them no end... But really, right now? When all attention and focus is clearly going to be (or bloody well ought to be) on getting 4th Edition ready to sell?

Because now they're promoting DDI as a major part of 4E. They should be getting ready to sell it along with the rulebooks. The latest news that settings will only have three books plus DDI updates only emphasises the importance of WOTC's online capabilities. The sucky WOTC forums (which I've used and frequently given up on when the frustration made me decide on a time out) and the sucky WOTC main site (which I've not used since it's so annoying to navigate and doesn't feel like worth my time) don't exactly fill me with confidence. And I haven't even followed e-Tools or other such digital projects that people mention as disappointing. WOTC doesn't seem to have a great reputation for technical competence and reliability. Since DDI will be a major part of 4E, I think now should be the time to convince potential customers that it's worth paying for, instead of maybe giving WOTC a year and then starting to comment that the web aspect of D&D has not been sorted out and this DDI thing isn't delivering as much benefit to the customer as it could be.

Edit: And... their forums are down again, for the second time this day for me.
 
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sunbear

Explorer
The DnD website is the best RPG site that I regularly visit. It has TONS of content and usefulness. However, it isn't pretty (that WoW site with the guy wielding the Ice Sword is COOL!) and it fails completely to inspire new pnp gamers. The "What is DnD" faq is pathetic, if I was 13 and was interested in DnD that page would turn me off completely. DnD needs new blood and it needs to compete with MMORPGs, the first impression many of the new to dnd gamers are going to have is the website, and it is not good right now.

I found the guy on the video to be completely valid in his criticisms, I did not think he sounded arrogant or snarky, as a matter of fact I felt that he had a passion for DnD. We all want DnD to succeed, letting them know where we think they could improve is a positive thing. And anyone that has spent time with gamers know that arrogance and snarky-ness is just part of the territory.
 

dagger

Adventurer
The site looks terrible and is hard to navigate......

They do have one resource to fix the problem....money, just throw a lot at it.
 

Chowder

First Post
A suggestion for WotC: a quick win would be to improve this page:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dndifaq

That link is found on the main D&D page -- it's where you go if you click on "What is D&D?" at the top right. On the Dragon Avenue video review, it's pointed out that this page is a plain, boring sea of black and white text.

My prediction is that, once advertising picks up for D&D, a large number of people will go to the main D&D website, click on "What is D&D?", see that boring page, and leave.

WotC: please fix that page. Do something special, something visually attractive, something exciting that will hold the attention of the reader. This would be an excellent first step toward showing your skeptics that there's hope for the future of the website.

-Chowder
 

Rel

Liquid Awesome
The Eternal GM said:
Personally, I couldn't give *ahem* a fig how the site looks as long as the game is good. I'd rather they spent time, energy and resources on the product.

The site is just the 3rd Edition site with some 4th Edition logos glued to it... It's obviously not meant to be there forever, and I'm sure it will be upgraded or renewed. But right now, it's not a priority, not even close...

So why now to bitch about it? It's been up for years! Why is it so important to inspect the ghost town? If in a years time it's still in this state, fair enough... Feel free to mock them no end... But really, right now? When all attention and focus is clearly going to be (or bloody well ought to be) on getting 4th Edition ready to sell?

Edited the post but let's dial back the coloquialisms there, ok Eternal GM?
 

Although I could trot out my credentials as someone who has built websites professionally since "cross browser" meant Netscape 1 and Mosiac, I think the really valuable opinions are the web USERS. Yeah, I could dig into their code and design to find some serious flaws, but if the typical web user never notices, then how important is it? For example, I seriously doubt the majority of web users noticed that the drop shadows aren't consistent, and just how many of them even cared?

However, this isn't to excuse the site. It does have it's problems, but clicking around WoW site real quick and saying how great it is* and then digging into a lot of minute problems (and some far from minute ones) isn't very convincing. For one thing, I need to go back and look at each site to see why WoW's side navigation is "a lot of great content" while WotC's is "these weird little text and expanding areas" (or however you criticized it).

The one area I think a lot of people are having in this thread and you mentioned in your video comes down to the fact that the site is designed entirely around current content. The current two Dragon articles, and current two features, etc. are well highlighted and presented (could always use some work, but the site does do a decent job). However, anything past the current two is an after thought. The archive navigation and Dragon/Dungeon indexes are quick and dirty. There are dozens of ways to better present past content (and even some better ways to present current content, for that matter), but this really brings me to my final point.

The site is temporary. Although they did a quick facelift with the 4e announcement, all along they have said that this is temporary (especially the Dragon and Dungeon portions), and that the final site will premiere this spring. In fact, didn't they recently announce it would be the end of this month (or was it next month? Somewhere they gave an actual timeline.) So the current site could be leaps and bounds better, and I'm not holding my breath for the final version to be astounding, but I wouldn't drag them over the coals for a poorly designed site that they intended to throw away less than a year later. Not the best advertisement up to this point, but with limited resources, you can't afford to put too much into a throw away site.

Now, if the final site isn't a dramatic improvement, then go ahead and criticize it. But for now, I can't really bring myself to have much problem with their current one considering it's focus only on current content and the fact that it'll be done within weeks. I just hope they have spent time doing usability tests and such with regular users and not relying on just the web developers designing what they want.



* (Just FYI for future videos, you might want to count how many "greats" you said while looking at the WoW site. I'm not being snarky, just pointing out that with that site being secondary focus, I got the feeling that you didn't have it as written out in your head as you had your wizards.com comments, so you got quite repetitive, just for future notice.

Oh, and the digs at the magazines only being online - even though I agree entirely - didn't seem related to the website critique and just stunk of bias. Makes it easier for people to disregard your valid points when sneak in the invalid ones.)
 

HeinorNY

First Post
The WoW FAQ page is also an endless sea of black and light-brown, but WoW have the advantage of being a computer game, with lots of visual elements of the game to be shown.

I agree with most of the points from the Dragon Avenue video review and I do think D&D site sucks (tell someone to go to D&D site and download the D&DExp pregens....).

The problem was not WHAT the guy on the video said, it was HOW he said it. Even if I agreed with him, he didn't get my sympathy, and I won't be going back to Dragon Avenue site looking for information about D&D whatsoever.

And I somehow sympathize with Charwoman Gene 's opinion, that video is not 4E news, it's just another guy from teh internets ranting about something.
Can I post a videoblog reply to that review? Youtube WARS FTW!
 

Greg K

Legend
Michael Morris said:
Ability to use Frontpage and Dreamweaver is pretty much the extent of WotC's web design crew's talents - I know this from working with them. That code is NOT done by hand and it shows.

Anyway, tangent the people reading this particular thread should be able to help with - I'm running into serious CSS issues on ENWorld2 vs. Internet Explorer. I need help (see thread in the meta forum).

Yes, knowing Frontpage and Dreamweaver doesn't make one a designer- or at least not a good one.

However, neither does knowing hand coding.

There is a reason developers hire designers. A designer understands design and posesses good visual design skills. A developer doesn't need to. They need to know the coding and how to make things work. The problem is that too many developers think they are designers (and, yes, too many designers do think they are developers, because they can design a good looking site with basic navigation (using html, css, and/or Dreamweaver (or some other design program)). The problem is made worse by head hunters and hiring managers often not knowing the difference and assuming that developer and designer is interchangable- and then wondering why they have difficulty finding someone with both the desired coding and design skills.
 
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