Videogame Influences!

[Scribble]

So I read a lot of people who find games being influenced by videogames to be objectionable. I don't understand this attitude... I play videogames, and find there are loads of ideas I can yoink for my D&D games...

Take Halo for example. One of the things I really enjoyed in Halo was when you'd come arcross these big shield/gun combo things... Usualyl you'd have to kill the Alien manning it, then you could take control of it yourself and use it to blast a bunch of other fools... (Blastin dudes with heavy weapons is fun.)

So I used this idea in an adventure in my game recently... In one of the fights, the enemies had a couple of giant slingshots. One shot rocks, the other mud balls that slowed people it hit.

It was a ton of fun watching the PCs and monsters scramble for control of the weapons.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Absolutely. One of the most fun campaigns i was ever in was a straight rip from Final Fantasy 1, and even incorporated things from a webcomic (8-bit theater). Races were limited to humans, half-elves, elves, and dwarves (anything else would be killed on sight by panicked townsfolk).

Classes were:
Black Mage: Int-sorcerer w/ metamagic specialist, wizard proficiencies, skills, and bonus feats (including scribe scroll) and special ability of Hadoken. Hadoken used every single spell you had left for a massive blast of (# spells remaining)d6, reflex half and was completely worthless.
White Mage: Healer with Favored Soul spell system and use of cleric spell list (after we all complained the healer's list was too awful). Special ability was using wis for attack and damage with a hammer.
Red Mage: Bard with d8 HD and ability to pick from bard, sorc/wiz, and cleric spell lists as he pleased. No bardic music. Bardic Knowledge replaced by "Knowledge (Metagame)" Special ability was right of the stat swap, which was once/day, for one minute after a standard action to alter the character sheet, could do things like swap ability scores, skill ranks, or spell known. By far the most 8-bit influenced class.
Fighter: Basically unchanged, got 2 extra bonus feats at the start as a special, and was allowed to get Trapfinding as a feat after no one chose to play a thief.
Thief and Black Belt: Mostly Rogue and Monk, no one played these, so I forget the alterations.

There was no multiclassing allowed, but at the point in the game that the classes improve, we "spontaneously gestalted."

We ran video game background music at all times to fit the scenario we were in, considered the Red Mage crazy whenever he tried to explain his meta-knowledge to us, had Fenix downs (very rare item, and this was before we knew of Revivify spell, which is not too far off), I got a Moogle familiar, and other awesomess. Oh, and the Fighter did spend half an hour discussing how much he liked swords with the Corneria guards.

 

[Umbran]

So I read a lot of people who find games being influenced by videogames to be objectionable. I don't understand this attitude... I play videogames, and find there are loads of ideas I can yoink for my D&D games...

I don't think that "ideas for games" is the issue. One can steal good ideas for encounters or game activities from anywhere.

The usual complaint is instead about the overall gameplay feel or rules structure. Basically, the argument goes that if folks wanted to play something that felt like a viedogame, they'd play a videogame.

 

[Scribble]

I don't think that "ideas for games" is the issue. One can steal good ideas for encounters or game activities from anywhere.

The usual complaint is instead about the overall gameplay feel or rules structure. Basically, the argument goes that if folks wanted to play something that felt like a viedogame, they'd play a videogame.

Maybe, but I kind of find they're a similar idea. You're taking soemthing fun thinking about why it's fun, and then modifying it to fit the medium you're working on.

 

[Janx]

Looking at it the other way, my favorite game Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion takes a lot from RPGs.

Namely:
freedom to go anywhere, explore any town or dungeon, or house
tresspassing concept (it knows where you're not supposed to be)
stealing concept (if NPCs see you take their stuff)
NPCs move around the environment, not just waiting in one spot to talk to you
NPCs have a disposition toward you, and each other, and are persuadable
NPCs can run away from you, or fight you

What I see it still needs work on (non pen&paper realistic):
NPCs are telepathic (get sighted stealing, and the police know about it and come running)
Quests have no timeline/deadline, you can have tons of urgent quests, and take your time doing them with no consequences


This is all excluding "bugs", just traits that would make it more the way an RPG can be run. Otherwise, Oblivion is a good example of how it tries to be a good GM for a solo campaign, run sandbox style.

 

[Imban]

So I read a lot of people who find games being influenced by videogames to be objectionable. I don't understand this attitude... I play videogames, and find there are loads of ideas I can yoink for my D&D games...

So the legendary sword you entered this dungeon to get is across the room, hovering above a pedestal on a platform five feet off the ground. There's a door leading onto that platform, but otherwise you can't get there from here, and you'll have to complete the entire dungeon and climb up and down four stories in order to get to that door that gets you back into the room you started in, except on the platform instead of on the ground level.

So you run into town with monsters in hot pursuit and the city guards just stand there and watch the monsters beat the life out of you in plain sight of them. The guards are only there to guard the town against you.

 

[punkorange]

Basically, the argument goes that if folks wanted to play something that felt like a videogame, they'd play a videogame.

They said the same thing about wii tennis, maybe even pong. Doesn't mean wii tennis and pong aren't appealing.

 

[Thasmodious]

I don't think that "ideas for games" is the issue. One can steal good ideas for encounters or game activities from anywhere.

The usual complaint is instead about the overall gameplay feel or rules structure. Basically, the argument goes that if folks wanted to play something that felt like a viedogame, they'd play a videogame.

Same goes for design, though. Videogame RPGs exist because of pnp RPGS. Practically everything in a fantasy RPG videogame can be traced back to D&D, levels, hit points, fantasy trappings and concepts, all of it. The fantasy industry thrives on drawing influence from different facets of that industry - literature, books, video games, comics, art, whatever. The idea that it is bad or wrong if developments in gameplay come about from videogames is absurd. One of the core necessities of games as online play took off was the need for real balance and a manner of adjustibility at players can and will find every conceivable exploit. Balance and exploits are a problem shared by the pnp RPG industry, so video games have had a lot of teach pnp designers in this area.

Obviously, that influence is seen in 4e, and in plenty of other examples. Who knows, in five years the pnp industry may move away from balance as an ideal of game design. I don't think so; I, and most 4e players, find it a great thing to have at the gaming table. But the idea of putting all classes on the same power framework, and of using a framework for those powers in the first place (allowing exploits to be easily errata'd away or plugged up on a case by case basis without interrupting overall class balance) is an idea built from design developments in video game RPGs (specifically MMOs). That doesn't mean 4e or any other system taking a similar approach plays like an MMO anymore than drawing design elements from the film or literature mediums makes the game play like a movie or book. Each is it's own experience.

 

[El Mahdi]

I have to admit, I find the objections a bit puzzling also.

RPG's essentially inspired, if not outright created, the RP videogame in the first place. From the very first computer RP game I played (I'm going to seriously date myself here), a tape drive loaded game using X's, O's, and basic lines for rooms (all programmed in basic), with the action completely described through text:

You enter a room.
You encounter an Orc.
>attack in progress< (this is where you sit for 30 seconds and watch your O and the monsters X occasionally blink)
You have defeated the Orc. (or not)
You have found 3 GP. (or not)

...then you move on to the next "set of lines" room.

I really don't see the problem with video games influencing or providing inspiration for RPG's. It's kind of a cirlce of life thing.

Now, I understand how RP video game scenarios and options are extremely limited when compared to a pen and paper RPG. There's just no way a video game can have the infinite choices and options of a game played essentially in ones imagination. But, if an RPG adventure plot becomes as limiting as the example edit: three posts above, that's not necessarily because of a bad influence from video games, as it is just bad adventure design by the author or DM.

I've heard some say that the Skill Challenge sub-system restricts players and DM's to just exactly this. However, I don't agree. I'll admit that it seems, up to this point, that's what a lot of the new 4E adventures are doing - but again, I feel that's more bad adventure design and a failure to use the system to it's full potential, rather than poor system design or bad influence from video games.

There's been a lot of design discussion about skill challenges lately. I think it was one of the harder concepts to grasp since it does require some practice in order to design and run. But I feel that it will improve as authors and designers start to realize the systems full potential. Although I'm sure some will always continue to under utilize it.

 

[Umbran]

Maybe, but I kind of find they're a similar idea. You're taking soemthing fun thinking about why it's fun, and then modifying it to fit the medium you're working on.

When we are talking about changes in the rules between editions, I think it is fair to say that they aren't altering the element to fit the new medium, so much as altering the new medium to fit the element.