Virtual Tabletop software?

[Twowolves]

See my post on page 1. I've been using d20Pro for a while, and I like it. It's stable. It's relatively easy to use. It doesn't take a lot of data entry to run.

It's built for D&D. Unlike Vegepygmy and a few others, I want my VTT to handle the math for me. I figure one thing computers are good at is knocking out the math, and I've found that the time it takes to add together dice and bonuses bogs down the game. So I'm happy to have a VTT that takes care of it.

I am looking for something to use with my Pathfinder game, most likely using Pathfinder Society Organized Play scenarios to test the waters and see how it runs. I can't see what the differences between FG2 and d20Pro are that would justify the difference in price.

(Speaking of price, $30 + 2 free player slots is the same as $10 each for 3 players. And is there some reason you can't use a communal DM log in and just take turns logging in as the DM?)

 

[Rienen]

I am looking for something to use with my Pathfinder game, most likely using Pathfinder Society Organized Play scenarios to test the waters and see how it runs. I can't see what the differences between FG2 and d20Pro are that would justify the difference in price.

(Speaking of price, $30 + 2 free player slots is the same as $10 each for 3 players. And is there some reason you can't use a communal DM log in and just take turns logging in as the DM?)

To be honest, I don't know enough about D20Pro to tell you. However, if you go to the FG forums, you can ask if anyone is willing to demo a game for you and show you the features. There are multiple people now with the Ultimate license (which allows for unlimited free players to connect to the GM client). The reason I bring that up is the Demo version is rather dated, being built off an old version. If someone with an Ultimate version has the D20_JPG ruleset installed, there is a fan created extension (rule and/or look & feel changes) that is for Pathfinder.

 

[Hawkwind]

I use an online whiteboard site for my games. It is not designed for gaming but it does the job and it's free and all you need is a browser and skype and we use google docs for character sheets so I never have to worry about networking issues or software problems with my fellow players, you can import and scale your own graphical images and the board has layers for images so you can have minis on floor plans and there is a chat window with a simple dice macro in it. The board can be found at www.twiddla.com and I recommend it for anyone wanting to try online pnp rpg for the first time. It also helps if the dm can use graphical editing software like Gimp or Photoshop for making your maps and counters

 

[wbcreighton]

Interesting

I just finished reading through this rather informative and interesting thread.

I have downloaded and played around with Maptools. Yesterday I was able to play using a VTT for the first time using FGII.

One important thing that hasn't really been discussed enough probably because most of the people commenting are playing the World's Most Popular RPG, is support for less popular games.

It has been mentioned that FGII is character sheet centric and Maptools is map centric. Both programs offer great support for DnD 3.5 and 4ed. But it is support for the less popular games that could make the difference. With FGII you need to buy (unless you want to do programming ) a ruleset for other rules systems ( it comes with DnD). With Maptools you can ignore the rules or use a framework. The problem is you need to find a framework that someone has volunteered to write or you have to write it yourself. With FGII if the ruleset is available you buy it. It is approved by the game publisher and will work. With Maptools, you might be able to find a framework or you might not.

Character sheet centric really means rules centric and map centric is really graphics centric. You can play FGII without using maps. If you don't use maps then why would you use Maptools ? If you only want a VTT for the maps then Maptools seems like the way to go.

I wanted to use Maptools to play RQ but there aren't any frameworks for it. I tried to modify a CoC framework to use with it but it wouldn't work. I looked into learning how to modify the framework but don't have the time to spend.

One of the positive things in Maptools favour is price. It is free.

Of course if you want to make a framework for a game to work like a FGII ruleset does, then you have to spend time to do that. If you value your free time at zero then Maptools is still free. With FGII you have to pay for the program and you have to pay for the ruleset. So if you put a value to your free time you can decide if the cost of FGII is worth it or not.


My first ever experience with FGII happened yesterday. We hooked up with a GM who owns an Ultimate license. That means we were able to download a free full version of the program to play in his game. It was a BRP game, an old fashioned dungeon crawl. I will say that the 3 of us who had never used FGII were able to pick it up very easily and were rolling dice and RPing in no time at all. All of the info for our characters was available on character sheets, and we can just double click on the skill name or weapon name or weapon damage and the rolls happen automatically. The tokens worked great, the maps and grids and FOW worked great too. We skyped for our OOC stuff.

I think it is that interaction between the rules and the graphical interface that really makes FGII easy to use.

Every RP game I have ever played, I had to buy the book or three. I have also bought plenty I haven't played. I don't think the cost of the VTT should be the most important factor in what VTT you use. I think the focus of your group is the most important factor and the ease of use of the VTT is what counts. And don't forget about support for other rule sets or frameworks.

 

[Merkuri]

I wanted to use Maptools to play RQ but there aren't any frameworks for it.

There are some MapTool fans that love making frameworks. If you post a request in the MapTool forums you might find someone willing to make a framework for you.

 

[OnlineDM]

With Maptools you can ignore the rules or use a framework. The problem is you need to find a framework that someone has volunteered to write or you have to write it yourself.

For what it's worth, I disagree here. I run D&D 4e in MapTool, and I don't use a framework, nor have I exactly written one of my own. I've simply written enough to work for my campaign. I set up some properties (hit points, ability scores, etc.) and then wrote macros for each character that reference those properties. It's not all automated, nor does it need to be.

Frankly, I think MapTool would work just fine if you used it solely for the maps. You can have everyone keep track of their own hit points on paper, roll their own dice and announce the results, etc. I've decided to simplify life for my players by giving them buttons to click to make the attack rolls and damage rolls for them and to increase and decrease their hit points, but that's all optional.

All I'm saying is, don't get locked into the idea of needing a framework. If you want to play a game online with your friends, the amount of technology you NEED in order to make the game happen is pretty minimal. For me, voice chat (Skype) and a shared battle mat that everyone can see (MapTool) is enough. Anything beyond that (automated dice rolling, tracking hit points, etc.) is gravy.

 

[amerigoV]

All I'm saying is, don't get locked into the idea of needing a framework. If you want to play a game online with your friends, the amount of technology you NEED in order to make the game happen is pretty minimal. For me, voice chat (Skype) and a shared battle mat that everyone can see (MapTool) is enough. Anything beyond that (automated dice rolling, tracking hit points, etc.) is gravy.

Also, the more the frameworks and toolsets do, the more it locks you into them - so you lose flexibility. I was looking at the FCII site today. It looks really good. But I use Savage Worlds. I see the core book is coded up, but what about all the different settings? The fun of SW is it can run a variety of things. Each setting has some modest tweeks, a few Edges, etc. I do not know how easy it is to add stuff, but you then get diverted to coding and not gaming.

I have been playing with the SW framework in Maptools. It does about what I want - it tracks initiative (cards) and had the common conditions of the system. Anything more is too much - its up to the players to track their character .

I liked the post about where do you put your value. If you are looking for the battlemat, then Maptools is hard to beat. FC looks like a very cool environment. I was looking at the iTabtop - real nice environment but I am not sure the mapping tools behind it (you can sign up for free, but you cannot loadup/make maps so its hard for me to judge if the money is worth it).

 

[Zaran]

I just finished reading through this rather informative and interesting thread.

I have downloaded and played around with Maptools. Yesterday I was able to play using a VTT for the first time using FGII.

One important thing that hasn't really been discussed enough probably because most of the people commenting are playing the World's Most Popular RPG, is support for less popular games.

It has been mentioned that FGII is character sheet centric and Maptools is map centric. Both programs offer great support for DnD 3.5 and 4ed. But it is support for the less popular games that could make the difference. With FGII you need to buy (unless you want to do programming ) a ruleset for other rules systems ( it comes with DnD). With Maptools you can ignore the rules or use a framework. The problem is you need to find a framework that someone has volunteered to write or you have to write it yourself. With FGII if the ruleset is available you buy it. It is approved by the game publisher and will work. With Maptools, you might be able to find a framework or you might not.

Character sheet centric really means rules centric and map centric is really graphics centric. You can play FGII without using maps. If you don't use maps then why would you use Maptools ? If you only want a VTT for the maps then Maptools seems like the way to go.

I wanted to use Maptools to play RQ but there aren't any frameworks for it. I tried to modify a CoC framework to use with it but it wouldn't work. I looked into learning how to modify the framework but don't have the time to spend.

One of the positive things in Maptools favour is price. It is free.

Of course if you want to make a framework for a game to work like a FGII ruleset does, then you have to spend time to do that. If you value your free time at zero then Maptools is still free. With FGII you have to pay for the program and you have to pay for the ruleset. So if you put a value to your free time you can decide if the cost of FGII is worth it or not.


My first ever experience with FGII happened yesterday. We hooked up with a GM who owns an Ultimate license. That means we were able to download a free full version of the program to play in his game. It was a BRP game, an old fashioned dungeon crawl. I will say that the 3 of us who had never used FGII were able to pick it up very easily and were rolling dice and RPing in no time at all. All of the info for our characters was available on character sheets, and we can just double click on the skill name or weapon name or weapon damage and the rolls happen automatically. The tokens worked great, the maps and grids and FOW worked great too. We skyped for our OOC stuff.

I think it is that interaction between the rules and the graphical interface that really makes FGII easy to use.

Every RP game I have ever played, I had to buy the book or three. I have also bought plenty I haven't played. I don't think the cost of the VTT should be the most important factor in what VTT you use. I think the focus of your group is the most important factor and the ease of use of the VTT is what counts. And don't forget about support for other rule sets or frameworks.

What I like about maptool is that you really don't need frameworks. you can make macros for die rolls and use squares or hexes for the maps and use any picture you want as a background. You really don't need to imbed the rules for any game. You don't have that at the tabletop and don't really need it online.

 

[wbcreighton]

Originally Posted by bostoff : With Maptools you can ignore the rules or use a framework.

For what it's worth, I disagree here. I run D&D 4e in MapTool, and I don't use a framework, nor have I exactly written one of my own. I've simply written enough to work for my campaign. I set up some properties (hit points, ability scores, etc.) and then wrote macros for each character that reference those properties. It's not all automated, nor does it need to be.

Frankly, I think MapTool would work just fine if you used it solely for the maps. You can have everyone keep track of their own hit points on paper, roll their own dice and announce the results, etc. I've decided to simplify life for my players by giving them buttons to click to make the attack rolls and damage rolls for them and to increase and decrease their hit points, but that's all optional.

All I'm saying is, don't get locked into the idea of needing a framework. If you want to play a game online with your friends, the amount of technology you NEED in order to make the game happen is pretty minimal. For me, voice chat (Skype) and a shared battle mat that everyone can see (MapTool) is enough. Anything beyond that (automated dice rolling, tracking hit points, etc.) is gravy.

I think I didn't word my statement clearly. When I said "with Maptools you can ignore the rules or you can use a framework" I meant:

In order to use Maptools to run the game you can use it for the maps and handle the rules on your own or you can use a framework. In other words unless you find or make a framework adapted to your game rules do not expect it to be able to function the way FGII does. FGII is fully integrated with the ruleset and that is what you are paying for.

I definitely agree that if you used Maptools to just handle the maps it would be perfect.

When it comes to the technology required to make a game happen I agree with your evaluation. A VTT program, Skype, a chat log etc is all that is required.

I guess what I am looking at in FGII is a way to use the power of the program to help manage the data. Recording the chat log, keeping track of the char sheets, and providing an integrated ruleset. In order to accomplish that with MT you most likely need some kind of framework.

 

[wbcreighton]

But I use Savage Worlds. I see the core book is coded up, but what about all the different settings? The fun of SW is it can run a variety of things. Each setting has some modest tweeks, a few Edges, etc. I do not know how easy it is to add stuff, but you then get diverted to coding and not gaming.

I honestly couldn't answer that question. I have only used FGII as a player once. I know our GM said he usually plays SW with FGII so he would be a better person to ask. As with Maptools there is a very active community that modifies the rulesets constantly.

I have been playing with the SW framework in Maptools. It does about what I want - it tracks initiative (cards) and had the common conditions of the system. Anything more is too much - its up to the players to track their character .

As a player I would say anything I have to keep track of is too much ! I think if the program can give the players a way of keeping their sheets up to date it actually benefits the GM.

I liked the post about where do you put your value. If you are looking for the battlemat, then Maptools is hard to beat. FC looks like a very cool environment. I was looking at the iTabtop - real nice environment but I am not sure the mapping tools behind it (you can sign up for free, but you cannot loadup/make maps so its hard for me to judge if the money is worth it).

I agree. I decided to signup with iTabletop with their $25 lifetime membership but I think they are a long ways away from being able to touch FGII, MT or BG. There are some games running on it but not many. The mapping tools are next to nonexistant. You have to make the maps elsewhere. No combat tracker yet. It will be a minimum of a year before I would even try it.