Warcraft's mass combat system

[Zappo]

I've read the mass combat system presented in Warcraft: Alliance & Horde Compendium. I think that it had already been printed elsewhere, but I don't know where. Anyway, I have a serious doubt about spellcasting in that system.

A battle round is one minute long. During this time, a unit can basically move and do a full attack, or do two full attacks. Normally, a character has ten rounds of actions in a minute.

Now, this is fine for moving, as you just multiply the speed by ten, and is reasonable for combat, as the attack system is slightly different than standard combat and can be thought of as taking into account the many single attacks that happen in a minute.

Where it starts having troubles is spellcasting. You can't assume that a wizard is casting "many single spells" in a minute, so rules are given to resolve the effect of a single spell in unit terms. How many infantrymen are hit by a fireball, that sort of stuff. It is even mentioned that a spellcasting unit can cast one spell per battle round (ie, minute); this is kinda strange since the casting time is 6 seconds and there is no reason for which spellcasters shouldn't be able to cast ten spells in a battle round. But I could handwave that and assume that the casters have to move so that they see their target, organize themselves for maximum effectiveness, and whatnot.

Where it really breaks down, and here is my problem, is with individual casters. I really can't see why a high-level wizard in the middle of a battle couldn't by these rules cast ten spells per battle round. But that would be terribly unbalanced in favor of the wizard. So I have to assume that, as for units, characters in mass combat can only act once per battle round. But I can already hear the complaints of wizard players - why can't I cast one spell per 6 seconds as usual? And I honestly don't know what to answer to that.

Is there anyone here who is familiar with that system? How did you solve this paradox?

 

[Thanee]

They obviously want to stress movement and maneuvering over raw offense and prevent that spellcasting completely overwhelms everything else. Seems fine to me, if it works in practice, which I cannot say.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Aust Diamondew]

It does seem problematic. Mass combat systems usually are though. Try play testing.

 

[Endur]

Remember its an approximation.

I have not read their rules, but what you are saying does not bother me.

Think of it this way.

After your wizard has a minimal amount of sleep the night before and spends four hours marching around wearing a heavy backpack full of spellbooks, spell components, wands, and potions, your wizard is likely to be exhausted and sick by the time the actual battle starts.

You are lucky that wizard can cast one spell per minute.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

It would also make sense that the Wizard would use his spell sparingly, since mass combat tends to last a while. Would you blow all your spells on the first wave of grunts? Any spellcaster in a unit of troops will be there to augment only, not fight for them. That one fireball comes just as the line is about to fail, or he is busy passing around arrows that have MW on them. The Cleric's MCLW comes after the line is broken and everyone is in unorganized melee. The Bard's music lasts as long as he performs, right?, so that takes care of him.

 

[Zappo]

Well, well. I've ran a couple of battles and the system seems to mostly work. I've made casters act the same way as units - basically, two actions per battle round. Giving orders counts as an action. So they can cast two spells, but they give up two orders. The players accepted this and it seems to be fairly balanced. Area effects are extremely dangerous for tightly-packed units, but not so much that a caster can win a battle by himself. Overall, the spells-per-round turned out not to be an issue.

What did turn out to be an issue, however, was the attack mechanic. Basically, a unit's offensive capabilities are based on the average attack and damage of the creatures that compose it. This, however, doesn't take into account the number of creatures in the unit. A unit can be composed of anywhere between 10 to 50 creatures, but their damage output is the same! The only difference lies in how much damage they can take. This means that 5 units of 10 orcs are a lot better than one unit of 50 orcs. Sure, they'll die fast - but who cares? In the first round, they do as much damage as the 50 orcs unit does over the course of five rounds!

I feel as if I'm missing something; to me, this seems like a very obvious flaw in the statistical model.

 

[Tonguez]

I'd assume its the caster trying to concentrate in the midst of all that jostling around, arrow falls, screaming and hulabaloo. Spell casting requires concentration and a battlefield isn't conducive to the recitiation of complicated arcane theorems

 

[Liquidsabre]

Keep in mind too that only the first rank or two will be fighting when contact is first met. Usually it won't matter how many are in a unit when they first meet, whether it's 50 or 10 won't matter. It's after contact is made and units break formation and intermix, flank, and overwhelm that numbers will play a significant role. Numbers will also play an important role when considering break points (casualties), push-back, etc.

 

[Zappo]

Keep in mind too that only the first rank or two will be fighting when contact is first met. Usually it won't matter how many are in a unit when they first meet, whether it's 50 or 10 won't matter. It's after contact is made and units break formation and intermix, flank, and overwhelm that numbers will play a significant role. Numbers will also play an important role when considering break points (casualties), push-back, etc.

Yeah. The issue is with ranged-attack units really. There's no way that 10 archers are just as effective as 50 archers, until someone engages them.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Have a "unit" equal a certain number. 5 - 25 creatures equals one unit. For larger wars, 10 - 100 creatures. More creatures than the cap get broken into a new unit.

If one unit does out mass another by double, and it is either a ranged unit, or contact has been made and battle lines broken, add +1 to hit and 1Dx to the damage for every multiple larger the bigger unit is. Three times larger, +2 to hit, +2Dx damage.