Warfare in 4e

[CountPopeula]

I'm thinking of having mass battles as skill challenges, with the completion of a tactical mission counting as a successful check.

Also, next time I run a campaign with allot of mass combat, I think I'll write up a General paragon path, that will allow the warlord to effect an entire army.

That might work better as an epic destiny, honestly. Inspiring an entire army (which could be tens of thousands of people) is something only a few people in history have been able to do. I mean, actually inspire, not just command. Sparticus and William Wallace come to mind, but not many others.

 

[MortalPlague]

Sparticus and William Wallace come to mind, but not many others.

Alexander the Great, Hannibal, and Ghengis Khan also seem appropriate. But your point is sound; few people in history have been able to do this.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

Hopefully they re-write tome of battle with new paragon paths and epic destinies to reflect mass combat abilities.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I think skill challenges work really well for the multitude of things that set up a battle - ie recruiting allies, logistics, finding the best position, gathering intel. etc. I have always used intimidate as the skill for directly commanding troops, in my 4e skill challenges it would get the lowest DCs, but I can see how players could use a lot of others to affect the battle outcome.
Religion, Streetwise, Diplomacy, Perception, Nature, History, Bluff, Insight
while stealth and heal might be limited to +1 success.


What about fights where characters are not involved? and what kind of tactics would 4e fantasy armies use?

 

[med stud]

For a large scale campaign, skill challenges sound best. Since there is no skill for tactics, I would go with ability tests. Warlords would be auto- trained.

For the actual engagement, I would steal from Exalted and make the troops behave like equipment or add the level of the average soldier in a unit to the commanders level. Each soldier adds one hitpoint to the commander.

A troop+commander get's vulnerability to area attacks. Warlords can use their abilities to boost other troops in a larger area than in skirmishes. Otherwise, all powers work as usual. Descriptions can be changed.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I think actually a nice way to handle mass-warfare in 4e be a Skill Challenge, have the Player side and the DM wage Skill Challenges against eachother.

This is how I was planning on doing it - I'm trying to figure out what to do to adopt it to my ongoing 3.5 game as well.

 

[nothing to see here]

Skill challenges, as written are not intended for use with opposed rolls.

So if you're using leadership in war as a plot device than, absolutely, a challenge makes sense.

For General vs General -- you might have to modify things using opposed rolls.

I can see an enterprising house-rule person coming up with a list of modifiers to a series of opposed checks using

Diplomacy (to inspire your troops)
History (military tactics)
Bluff (to feint)
Intimidate (to break enemy morale)

With a whole list of modifiers, based on the number, nature of your troops etc etc.

Come to think of it -- 4e lends itself (more than 3e did) to dusting off some of those old 1e War Machine mechanics that are beloved to so many of us. I might do some scribbling on this after work today.

 

[drothgery]

Oh, a big kick to the teeth for Warlord is in the DMG "a power’s effect should be limited to a squad-sized group—the size of your player character group plus perhaps one or two friendly NPCs."

D&D combat is about squad-scale actions. For large-unit stuff, you're on your own (at least for now). I expect many charcters with the warlord class are skilled in large-unit tactics, but they're the 'noble/formally trained officer' types, not the 'drill sergeant' types.

I'd almost be tempted to come up with something along the lines of the ritual mechanic for things a PC general could do to influence a war.

 

[Hjorimir]

Skill challenges, as written are not intended for use with opposed rolls.

I'm pretty sure the DMG suggests for opposed roll type skill checks to just set the DC of the skill challenge to the passive skill of the opposing NPC.

 

[Byronic]

Perhaps the skill challenge for Warfare can learn something from the Disease mechanic (which honestly might be in the Top 5 of the best things in 4.0)