Warforged: MM vs Dragon Magazine

[Rechan]

Note those are different effects - the base ability allows you to save against a single effect that inflicts ongoing damage. With the feat, you get a second free save, against an effect that inflicts ongoing damage or inflicts a condition - a significantly more powerful ability!

What would be a condition that you need to save against? Aside from Medusa/Beholder petrification, I can't think of an ongoing effect that you need to save versus to end the condition.

 

[Kordeth]

What would be a condition that you need to save against? Aside from Medusa/Beholder petrification, I can't think of an ongoing effect that you need to save versus to end the condition.

You have the PDF of the MM, I'm assuming (based on your thread asking about the differences between the leaked PDF and the final books). Do a word search for "save ends," I believe you'll find there are a lot.

 

[Spatula]

What would be a condition that you need to save against? Aside from Medusa/Beholder petrification, I can't think of an ongoing effect that you need to save versus to end the condition.

Stun/slow/dazed/weakened/etc.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Oh ... you're implying "stupid", thereby implying that anyone who disagrees with you is less intelligent than you.

Are you going to let Warforged use a feat to get Godplate at first level?
What happens when a Warforged with the SkinPlate feat reaches 16th level?
Does it transform into SkinWarplate?
Can you retrain the feat? What happens then?
Do warforged pupate, is that their big secret?
Do you remember that using the disenchant/re-enchant ritual lowers the level of the item by 5?
If disenchant/re-enchant works differently for warforged, what are you going to pull out of your butt to explain this?

Ditch the attitude, please.

When you read other peoples posts, please don't automatically read into statements that disagree with your position an assertion of stupidity. That way you can respond less aggressively.

Thanks

 

[Spatula]

Balanced with the rules system?

Note that the design concern had nothing to do with balance. They made the change so warforged PCs could wear found armor.

Oh ... you're implying "stupid",

Actually I was going for "silly."

<snip snippy armor questions>
The AC progression for characters is no secret. It's been mentioned numerous times over the past year, mainly by the #1 4e rules guy Mike Mearls, that you can do away with magic entirely, or even armor, and the game still works great as long as you translate what are currently equipment-related bonuses into innate bonuses. The applications of that concept to a naturally armored race are fairly obvious, I think.

So yes, the warforged's armor would get better as its level increases, just like any character's innate abilities improve. It's a testament to the quality of the game structure that such a thing is even contemplatible.

What the sweet fancy Moses does Dark Sun have to do with anything?

I generally like 4e but I really dislike the babying mentality that goes into some of the design decisions. I don't personally see much point in having exotic races (of which there are a few in DS) that are not actually exotic because the designers are unwilling to diverge from the baseline at all.

Some time ago, late last year I think, there was talk from the designers about how races would matter throughout your character's life. And that what they were doing with the concept of race as a game mechanic would be an improvement over 3e in handling non-standard races (LA/ECL, which was an improvement than 1e/2e's "just don't do it" but very flawed). I guess that whatever it was they were doing fell by the wayside, because what I see now is that all races must fit in a very narrow power band. And that you can never trade off some options for others (save that being Small sucks for some classes). If anything, it's even more limiting than 3e was. Every race is like a Star Trek alien, basically.

So getting back to your question, what does Dark Sun have to do with it? Nothing, but the design of the warforged indicates that if the official 4e DS happens, it's going to be so watered down as to be unrecognisable, and as a result I won't be interested in purchasing it.

 

[Rechan]

Another example of how the DDI is just "Seeing Stuff Early"; in the Shadowfell article about Eberron, you get Dolgaunts and Dolgrims. (Granted, I'm not impressed with the dolgrim stats, but hey).

 

[Blackeagle]

I generally like 4e but I really dislike the babying mentality that goes into some of the design decisions. I don't personally see much point in having exotic races (of which there are a few in DS) that are not actually exotic because the designers are unwilling to diverge from the baseline at all.

It seems to me that races can diverge quite substantially from the baseline, they just have to do it through racial feats and powers rather than default abilities. They've essentially decided that if you want to play a more powerful race, you're going to have to spend feats or give something from your class up to compensate.

And that you can never trade off some options for others

Isn't this exactly what the Warforged racial feats and powers do?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Another example of how the DDI is just "Seeing Stuff Early"; in the Shadowfell article about Eberron, you get Dolgaunts and Dolgrims. (Granted, I'm not impressed with the dolgrim stats, but hey).

Similarly I thought the Dolgaunt stats were very misjudged. What's this 'waving tentacles aura' sillyness?

It would have made much more sense to give them a couple of standard attacks - one which was reach 2 tentacle (like the displacer beast), possibly giving threatening reach if it is felt justified. The other attack would be a grab which did ongoing 5 damage (the blood drain effect).

 

[rkanodia]

BTW - anybody else think that the shoulderbow is heavily inspired by the Predator movies

Absolutely. But now we need one that shoots Force bolts, with Fire burst secondary attacks centered around the target!

 

[WhatGravitas]

Similarly I thought the Dolgaunt stats were very misjudged. What's this 'waving tentacles aura' sillyness?

I miss the "sucking your vital fluids out" thing. And the ongoing damage is not really that, as the dolgaunt doesn't heal.

Cheers, LT.