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(Warhammer) Elves and humans mingling

Byronic

First Post
In the Warhammer setting, wood Elves seem rather xenophobic. Correct me if I'm wrong but they don't seem to like visitors and don't mingle with the other races. However, if you're playing a roleplaying game the races WILL mingle.

How do you solve this? I'm thinking specifically of (wood) Elves hanging around with humans in an adventuring party.

Also, how do you deal with fantasy racism (like what happens when a Wood Elf enters a village)

And last but certainly not least, what's this about Wood Elves having lots of little human boys around? Can someone explain that part to me?
 

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frankthedm

First Post
In the Warhammer setting, wood Elves seem rather xenophobic. Correct me if I'm wrong but they don't seem to like visitors and don't mingle with the other races. However, if you're playing a roleplaying game the races WILL mingle.

How do you solve this? I'm thinking specifically of (wood) Elves hanging around with humans in an adventuring party.
Then the humans are viewed badly by those with gripes with the elves and the players will have to tread cautiously since WFRP characters are not superhuman.
Also, how do you deal with fantasy racism (like what happens when a Wood Elf enters a village)
In the dark medieval setting, you embrace it. You randomly determine or choose if anyone in the town has a score to settle with the wood elves, over a suspected elf-involved murder / disappearance. If so, you make an adventure out of it.
And last but certainly not least, what's this about Wood Elves having lots of little human boys around? Can someone explain that part to me?
Source? IIRC The 2E Bretonnian book specifically mentions Bretonnian boys who had the potential to be wizards are whisked away by the wood elves never to be seen again. I don't think the book mentions what their fate is. I mean, maybe they are set loose in some elf designed Neverland Ranch, but I just assumed they were killed and the writers were too squeamish to come out and say it.
 
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Byronic

First Post
Source? IIRC The 2E Bretonnian book specifically mentions Bretonnian boys who had the potential to be wizards are whisked away by the wood elves never to be seen again. I don't think the book mentions what their fate is. I mean, maybe they are set loose in some elf designed Neverland Ranch, but I just assumed they were killed and the writers were too squeamish to come out and say it.

Here's a link: 战锤百科 - WFB:木精灵

I'm really wondering about this part:

Those that enter through one of these strange gateways find themselves in a grand, beautiful cavern deep below the tree or hill. Roots can be seen far above, curving down from the roof of the hall to form elegant, interweaving pillars. Here, the Wood Elves make their homes, fine structures of ethereal beauty. Elegant lanterns adorn the hall filled with tiny, flitting, glowing figures. Here the Wood Elves feast and celebrate the natural cycles of the forest, holding grand banquets of woodland game and free-flowing, intoxicating Elven wines. The halls are alive with wild dancing, lilting laughter, and melodic music. Boy children taken from the lands around the forest, destined never to grow old, joyfully serve their graceful Elven masters.

I might need a peek in one of those WHFRP books to find out how mixed race parties are done...
 

YourSwordIsMine

First Post
The Playable race of Elves are not the same as the Wood Elves of Athel Loren or the High Elves of Ulthuan. These elves hail from the Empire itself making their homes in the remaining forests left to them (Laurelorn Forest, Great Forest, Reikwald Forest and a few others). They are not as xenophobic as the Wood Elves or seperatist as the High Elves and some do travel freely throughout the Empire. There are definitely racist issues and can still make for good plot hooks as FranktheDM states.

I dont think in WFRP2e that the Wood Elves or High Elves are a playable race for several good reasons... Both are in my opinion a bit over-powered and should only ever be used as NPCs.

I'm starting a WFRP campaign set in the aftermath of the Storm of Chaos. One of my players will be playing a Kithband Warrior seperated from her kithband during the turmoil of SoC. She is from Laurelorn Forest and so is a bit out of her element being this deep in human lands. It should be fun; I'm really looking forward to developing her story more.
 

Byronic

First Post
The Playable race of Elves are not the same as the Wood Elves of Athel Loren or the High Elves of Ulthuan. These elves hail from the Empire itself making their homes in the remaining forests left to them (Laurelorn Forest, Great Forest, Reikwald Forest and a few others). They are not as xenophobic as the Wood Elves or seperatist as the High Elves and some do travel freely throughout the Empire. There are definitely racist issues and can still make for good plot hooks as FranktheDM states.

Oooooohhhhh, well that makes perfect sense. I was wondering how they dealt with the rabid xenophobia of the Wood Elves.

I think that inspired a solution for my setting.
 

YourSwordIsMine

First Post
Oooooohhhhh, well that makes perfect sense. I was wondering how they dealt with the rabid xenophobia of the Wood Elves.

I think that inspired a solution for my setting.

Back in WFRP1e days the playable Elves were called Wood Elves but at the time they did not have their own dedicated Armybook for WFB like they do today. This went even farther to seperate the elves down into 4 distinct Elf cultures (High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves and then the lower Empire Elves) within the WFRP2e world.

Empire Elves seem to have a much different culture than the other Elves. Read the descriptions for Kithband Warrior and Ghost Strider. While not much, it does give an inkling to their culture and I think it is expanded on a bit more under the religion section and maybe in Sigmars Heirs (which does have a section on the EMpires views on elves) as well. To be honest there isnt much in the way of info on the Imperial Elves to begin with... At least this is given me the chance to add some of my own creativity to my campaign.

I believe there is a fan-made Empire Elf book in the works somewhere, supposedly along with Tilea, Estelia and a Dwarf book as well. I dont know the progress or status, but I've heard it mentioned in a few other forums.
 
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frankthedm

First Post
I'm really wondering about this part:
In Bretonnia girls with magical potential are whisked away to develop thier powers. Boys are just whisked away. Now that I see what may be an official stance that those boys are not just killed, I too will accuse the Athel Loren Elves of having a shota-complex.
 

lutecius

Explorer
I'm really wondering about this part:
[...] Boy children taken from the lands around the forest, destined never to grow old, joyfully serve their graceful Elven masters.
Wow, that does sound Neverland-esque. Is it fan-made or official fluff?

In Bretonnia girls with magical potential are whisked away to develop thier powers. Boys are just whisked away. Now that I see what may be an official stance that those boys are not just killed, I too will accuse the Athel Loren Elves of having a shota-complex.
I thought the boys were sacrificed but keeping them as slaves also makes sense and matches the druchii habit.
Girls are better off and some return as Damsels of the Grail (not a pc career), which is confusing because I believe the Damsels were elsewhere decribed as elves.

(I'm actually thinking of making elves in my dnd homebrew unable to reproduce on their own. Like in folk tales, they would have to steal human children with potential and turn them into elves or mate with humans.)

Anyway, according to the guide to Bretonnia, "the fay of Athel Loren" aren't even identified as elves by most people since few humans in the area are familiar with other elves (from L'Anguille or the Empire) but those who are immediately recognize them for what they are.
 
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Skallgrim

First Post
Given that "half-elves" emphatically don't exist in Warhammer, and elves are definitely a different, and significantly "older" species than humans, I really am highly dubious of any sexual attraction on their part towards humans. Certainly a fondness is possible, even a deep devotion, such as towards a famlly pet, but a sexual attraction would probably only manifest in an aberrant few.

Think about it this way. We look a LOT like chimpanzees (compared to how much we look like anything else). How many people are attracted to chimpanzees sexually?

Now, capturing chimps and training them, either for study, or for amusement? Well, we've been doing that for quite some time. I'm sure that many people who have cared for chimps, and worked with them in a research or zoological facility have developed deep, personal bonds with the chimps they associate with. How many of them have had sex with them? I would bet almost none.

I see this "eternally young boys" as a version of that. The elves are "inhuman", and I mean that literally. They see no moral problem in raising young boys to be their servants eternally. I am sure that those boys (the ones that survive) are quite happy, as they are also ignorant of the other options available to them. Note that this does not mean the elves must be mean or cruel to the human boys, but still consider their own choices about these children's fate to be more valuable than any other.

The whole sexual aspect, to me, arises because, in our culture, cultivating a servant caste of preadolescent boys definitely rings of sexual deviance. However, no one assumes a rancher is sexually deviant because he buys a stud bull and supervises breeding him, or gelds a horse. Elves in Warhammer aren't pointy-eared humans, and, for the most part, the fiction has made a strong effort to reflect that. Their sensibilities are different from ours. Assuming that elves maintain a servant caste of young boys for sexual reasons is projecting a behavior from our culture (and species) onto theirs.

Also, to the original poster's question, assuming that if you are playing a roleplaying game, the races will mingle, is an assumption YOU are making as a GM or player. The elves of Athel Loren have been written to be suspicious of outsiders (even High Elves) for thousands of years. They have been depicted as killing intruders outright, often even without warning. They have sundered their connections with 'modern' Elf culture, which engages in trade and diplomacy with humans hundreds of years ago. Assuming they will "mingle" because a player wants to play them sounds like it is being too casual about the issue.

Dragon Ogres exist. They don't necessarily "mingle" with humans from the Empire. Skaven exist. Trolls exist. Slaan exist. Cathayans exist (heck, they are even human!).

I don't think that there is anything "wrong" with allowing an elf of Athel Loren to adventure in a party. However, it should be clearly seen as a "story in itself" and be part of the narrative of the campaign. Adventuring inside the bounds of Athel Loren itself, for a party of non-wood elves, should be even more of a story.
 

Hand of Evil

Hero
Epic
My WFRP view...

Elves = nobles: they have their own rules and you don't get in their way. They are cleaner than you. They can come into your world but you can't go to theirs. You just don't trust them, can't really talk to them, and wish they would just go back to their world.

Dwarves = working class: you can have a beer and sing songs with them, no different than than the working class. Sure they have gold-fever but who does not. Their word and family are most important to them.

Halflings = cooks: You want to eat, party, have a good time. The Mootifa has it's fingers in every pie and there is always something in the oven. As long as you are working with them or being served by them, you are good but never get on their bad side or your head will be on a plate! You never have too many cooks in a kitchen!
 

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