D&D (2024) Warlock Patron at 3rd Level Makes Sense

[mamba]

Or we could have actual tutorial levels and let everyone have all 20 levels of game they paid for.

because skipping the first two is what is the problem with that, not that most chars never make it past level 10 or 12

 

[niklinna]

Or we could have actual tutorial levels and let everyone have all 20 levels of game they paid for.

Sure beats paying to not play the game you paid for.

 

[Lojaan]

because skipping the first two is what is the problem with that, not that most chars never make it past level 10 or 12

You gotta admit tho, it's a pretty funny argument. "I want my subclass at level 1 because I paid for 20 levels so I deserve 20 levels" is freakin hilarious.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Not really.

It would be like telling a cleric- don’t worry about your deity until level 3.

The patron, imo, is fundamental to the class. It’s the very essence of why you’re a warlock.

It's not telling the warlock not to worry. A warlock who doesn't know who their patron is should be very worried.

What it does is opens up stories. I see three options here that are all supported by the rules:

• The patron is known but has just sent the starter pack to prepare. This is thematically almost indistinguishable from level 1
• The patron is unknown and the warlock should be very worried. A fun new option for levels 1-2
• The warlock has made a few sacrifices and made it known that they are looking for a patron but only have samples and decide at level 3

Two of these seem like fun new choices

 

[Clint_L]

In my head canon, warlock relationships with their patrons are very different than clerics entering an organized religion.

To me, the warlock represents the classic archetype of the character who uncovers a bit of mystery, a bit of power and just has to keep pushing…

So yeah, they don’t just wake up one day and decide to have a pact with Asmodeus, a Great Old One, an arch-fey, etc. No, they slowly get in too deep.

For me, of all the classes this is the one that makes most sense with waiting on sub-class. Though I am a fan of that rule for other reasons, as well.

 

[Parmandur]

Not really.

It would be like telling a cleric- don’t worry about your deity until level 3.

The patron, imo, is fundamental to the class. It’s the very essence of why you’re a warlock.

The Cleric chooses a Domain at Level 3, now.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, I like it a lot. If you want the Patron to be involved from 1st level you still can, and just say that they weren’t ready grant your warlock “the good stuff” until they had proven themselves. Alternatively, now you also have the option of the patron being unknown at first and revealing themselves later, and the option of the subclass features being the only features actually granted by the patron, while the others come from other entities, artifacts, and discoveries.

 

[DEFCON 1]

You can make your backstory however the heck you want. You want your patron to have found you at level 1? You do it. You don't need a subclass "game mechanic" to be the flag that indicates that you actually now have a patron. Heck... you could never find out about your patron until level 17 within the story of the campaign and still play the game's mechanics exactly the same. Why do you have these abilities? Who knows? Does it matter within the narrative? Nope! Not if you don't want it to!

I mean heck... what if the game didn't even have subclasses? Every warlock got the exact same features as every other one over all 20 levels. You would STILL be able to decide as part of your story and character arc just who it is gave you your abilities and when you found out about them. 1st level, 3rd level, 11th level, 17th level, NEVER!?! It doesn't matter. You decide along with the DM what your character's story ultimately is and you don't need a game mechanic to suddenly show up to indicate it.

 

[tetrasodium]

It makes sense to me at least. There are many different stories to tell and ways to explain it. Here are two that come immediately to mind.

1. You made a pact at level one with your patron, but they have only given you a small measure of power to test your mettle. By reaching 3rd, you have proven yourself worthy of more unique abilities.

2. You made a pact with some lesser entity: a Bone Devil, a lesser fey noble or a hag, or some star spawn, and did well, but they have no more power to give you and put you in touch with something greater.

Does this make sense to people?

I think it might make sense to fluff it where they go from a pact with a random fiend or something & get traded over to the fiend's (or whatever) boss at 3 when they get their subclass. Maybe even move contact patron to somewhere in that 3-5 range where it's useful but the warlock lacks the clout to feel safe about contacting a super high CR patron. Moving the current pact's level 1 mechanical boons to L3 does NOT seem reasonable or make sense from a class design standpoint though

 

[Neonchameleon]

The Cleric chooses a Domain at Level 3, now.

But the god is not the same thing as the domain. If, for example, I were an Athena worshipper the Goddess of War, the Goddess of the City, and the Goddess of Crafts would be different domains all while being the same deity.